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	<title>Comments on: High Intensity Training: On Duration</title>
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	<description>The Blog of Anthony Dream Johnson</description>
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		<title>By: Dream</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/05/high-intensity-training-on-duration/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Dream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=327#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Hey Cooner, thanks for stoppin by. Some thoughts in response to your comment (your comment is spliced throughout beginning with ***, my response is next to &gt;&gt;&gt;)



***I am a rock climber (ironic, I live in florida) but I live for the sport. I boulder, lead trad and sport, mountaineer, and climb at the gainesville rock gym as much as I possibly can. Why? Exercise? No. It’s because I love it. I think rock climbing is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever experienced in this physical life, second only to sex.

&gt;&gt;&gt;I think this is an important quote for all readers to take a look at. You do rock climbing because you love it, not for exercise- although we&#039;ll get to that in a moment per your comment.



***Maybe not… Rock climbing, bouldering especially, requires strength that most people absolutely cannot comprehend. Not to be purposefully conceded or prideful about the sport, but some of the movements I’ve seen/done in my climbing career are not only breathtakingly beautiful, but unsurpassed in required physical ability, that again, leaves the average joe in awe.

&gt;&gt;&gt;Austin, I have no doubt that rock climbing requires an intensity most people fail to comprehend- mentally &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; physically. As a result, the &quot;exercise effect&quot; I&#039;ve recently discussed in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/09/look-to-the-past-for-nutrition-and-the-future-for-exercise-the-missing-link-for-crossfit-and-primal-fitness-enthusiasts/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;, is &lt;strong&gt;especially potent&lt;/strong&gt; from rock climbing. Or in other words, it can likely result in substantial strength gains, as well as improvements in motor skill.

***My favorite type of climbing is bouldering, which usually consists of short, overhanging, climbs that consist of less than 20 intense moves. Sounds just like HIT.

&gt;&gt;&gt;It does sound intense, but it differs from high intensity training (or similar versions of strength training) in the sense of safety and effectiveness. Yes, it is intense, and will result in some level of muscular hypertrophy, however the same effect can be had in less time, with substantially less wear and tear, as well as immediate risk from the high force movements- in the form of properly conducted strength training.

***All of this sounds like way overboard on the quantity level according to your thinking, but I’d argue VERY good quality.

&gt;&gt;&gt;Not necessarily, in fact Patrick Diver who commented just above you had some of the best results of his life at a 3x per week frequency. Recovery ability varies from person to person, as well as personal goals, lifestyle, and so on.

***You can’t say it’s ineffective. I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, and my core climbing community has the highest concentration of wickedly strong people I’ve met in my entire life.

&gt;&gt;&gt;That I can not. Again, I believe rock climbing in particular has a potent exercise effect, however as Drew Baye has said, that does not make it effective exercise. I can also say that no matter how potent that effect is, it will not exceed that of properly conducted strength training. 

Furthermore, I can only imagine your current level of strength. I remember back in high school you did some physically impressive feats, that I can assume have only been improved upon since then (also in accordance with your age now and naturally higher level of musculature as you near your mid twenties). However, you may be able to enjoy that same level of strength with with almost no activity- depends on your genetics. Some people (remember Lance B.?) are just naturally strong from birth, and have above average levels of muscle no matter what type of training they employ.

Also, I can guarantee you the same or better results could be had from strength training alone that you currently enjoy. Perhaps not the same (activity specific) cardiovascular adaptations and motor skill efficiency, but the foundation- plain and simple muscle- &lt;em&gt;would&lt;/em&gt; be there.

As for the rock climbing community, there is a section in Body by Science that discusses this phenomena. Not that rock climbing doesn&#039;t have a strong exercise effect- as I&#039;ve already mentioned- but specific types of people are attracted to specific types of sports. &lt;em&gt;The sport does not produce the body type&lt;/em&gt;. Swimming does not produce a &quot;swimmer&#039;s body&quot;, nor does &quot;power lifting&quot; produce the body of a &quot;power lifter&quot;. These sports attract people that naturally excel at them, and weeds out those who do not. Accelerated evolution in a sense.

***
Am I putting my joints, muscles, and body at risk?
Am I training myself to death?
Should I stop climbing so much?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;Yes, you are putting various parts of your body at risk climbing rocks- I&#039;m sure you know this well enough from first hand experience. The point I&#039;m making is that you would do &lt;em&gt;even better&lt;/em&gt; in your chosen sport if you were to incorporate an intense, brief, and infrequent session of strength training. In your case, likely less than once a week so as not to over train (while still rock climbing).

Should you stop climbing? That&#039;s up to you, but I would think the answer is no. You seem very passionate about it and that&#039;s something that&#039;s all to rare these days. Be proud of it, just accept that it&#039;s not the *best* thing you can be doing for your health, and at the same time you can-better- protect your body from possible future injury by further increasing your lean body mass in the safest way possible- properly conducted strength training.

Gl with the millitary. I&#039;m doubting as well that you&#039;ll be able to get out of running lol, but being intellectually aware of the problems with the training they employ is a big step in the right direction.

Again, good luck, and thanks for stoppin by

-Anthony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Cooner, thanks for stoppin by. Some thoughts in response to your comment (your comment is spliced throughout beginning with ***, my response is next to >>>)</p>
<p>***I am a rock climber (ironic, I live in florida) but I live for the sport. I boulder, lead trad and sport, mountaineer, and climb at the gainesville rock gym as much as I possibly can. Why? Exercise? No. It’s because I love it. I think rock climbing is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever experienced in this physical life, second only to sex.</p>
<p>>>>I think this is an important quote for all readers to take a look at. You do rock climbing because you love it, not for exercise- although we&#8217;ll get to that in a moment per your comment.</p>
<p>***Maybe not… Rock climbing, bouldering especially, requires strength that most people absolutely cannot comprehend. Not to be purposefully conceded or prideful about the sport, but some of the movements I’ve seen/done in my climbing career are not only breathtakingly beautiful, but unsurpassed in required physical ability, that again, leaves the average joe in awe.</p>
<p>>>>Austin, I have no doubt that rock climbing requires an intensity most people fail to comprehend- mentally <em>and</em> physically. As a result, the &#8220;exercise effect&#8221; I&#8217;ve recently discussed in <a href="http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/09/look-to-the-past-for-nutrition-and-the-future-for-exercise-the-missing-link-for-crossfit-and-primal-fitness-enthusiasts/" rel="nofollow">this post</a>, is <strong>especially potent</strong> from rock climbing. Or in other words, it can likely result in substantial strength gains, as well as improvements in motor skill.</p>
<p>***My favorite type of climbing is bouldering, which usually consists of short, overhanging, climbs that consist of less than 20 intense moves. Sounds just like HIT.</p>
<p>>>>It does sound intense, but it differs from high intensity training (or similar versions of strength training) in the sense of safety and effectiveness. Yes, it is intense, and will result in some level of muscular hypertrophy, however the same effect can be had in less time, with substantially less wear and tear, as well as immediate risk from the high force movements- in the form of properly conducted strength training.</p>
<p>***All of this sounds like way overboard on the quantity level according to your thinking, but I’d argue VERY good quality.</p>
<p>>>>Not necessarily, in fact Patrick Diver who commented just above you had some of the best results of his life at a 3x per week frequency. Recovery ability varies from person to person, as well as personal goals, lifestyle, and so on.</p>
<p>***You can’t say it’s ineffective. I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, and my core climbing community has the highest concentration of wickedly strong people I’ve met in my entire life.</p>
<p>>>>That I can not. Again, I believe rock climbing in particular has a potent exercise effect, however as Drew Baye has said, that does not make it effective exercise. I can also say that no matter how potent that effect is, it will not exceed that of properly conducted strength training. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I can only imagine your current level of strength. I remember back in high school you did some physically impressive feats, that I can assume have only been improved upon since then (also in accordance with your age now and naturally higher level of musculature as you near your mid twenties). However, you may be able to enjoy that same level of strength with with almost no activity- depends on your genetics. Some people (remember Lance B.?) are just naturally strong from birth, and have above average levels of muscle no matter what type of training they employ.</p>
<p>Also, I can guarantee you the same or better results could be had from strength training alone that you currently enjoy. Perhaps not the same (activity specific) cardiovascular adaptations and motor skill efficiency, but the foundation- plain and simple muscle- <em>would</em> be there.</p>
<p>As for the rock climbing community, there is a section in Body by Science that discusses this phenomena. Not that rock climbing doesn&#8217;t have a strong exercise effect- as I&#8217;ve already mentioned- but specific types of people are attracted to specific types of sports. <em>The sport does not produce the body type</em>. Swimming does not produce a &#8220;swimmer&#8217;s body&#8221;, nor does &#8220;power lifting&#8221; produce the body of a &#8220;power lifter&#8221;. These sports attract people that naturally excel at them, and weeds out those who do not. Accelerated evolution in a sense.</p>
<p>***<br />
Am I putting my joints, muscles, and body at risk?<br />
Am I training myself to death?<br />
Should I stop climbing so much?</p>
<p>>>>Yes, you are putting various parts of your body at risk climbing rocks- I&#8217;m sure you know this well enough from first hand experience. The point I&#8217;m making is that you would do <em>even better</em> in your chosen sport if you were to incorporate an intense, brief, and infrequent session of strength training. In your case, likely less than once a week so as not to over train (while still rock climbing).</p>
<p>Should you stop climbing? That&#8217;s up to you, but I would think the answer is no. You seem very passionate about it and that&#8217;s something that&#8217;s all to rare these days. Be proud of it, just accept that it&#8217;s not the *best* thing you can be doing for your health, and at the same time you can-better- protect your body from possible future injury by further increasing your lean body mass in the safest way possible- properly conducted strength training.</p>
<p>Gl with the millitary. I&#8217;m doubting as well that you&#8217;ll be able to get out of running lol, but being intellectually aware of the problems with the training they employ is a big step in the right direction.</p>
<p>Again, good luck, and thanks for stoppin by</p>
<p>-Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Austin Cooner</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/05/high-intensity-training-on-duration/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Cooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=327#comment-174</guid>
		<description>You have some good points in this article. I believe your HIT workouts work; I have several friends who follow HIT programs and it definitely works for them. However, in my case, and the community I belong to present an interesting challenge. I am a rock climber (ironic, I live in florida) but I live for the sport. I boulder, lead trad and sport, mountaineer, and climb at the gainesville rock gym as much as I possibly can. Why? Exercise? No. It&#039;s because I love it. I think rock climbing is one of the most beautiful things I&#039;ve ever experienced in this physical life, second only to sex. So it fits into the recreation category, right?

Maybe not... Rock climbing, bouldering especially, requires strength that most people absolutely cannot comprehend. Not to be purposefully conceded or prideful about the sport, but some of the movements I&#039;ve seen/done in my climbing career are not only breathtakingly beautiful, but unsurpassed in required physical ability, that again, leaves the average joe in awe. 

My favorite type of climbing is bouldering, which usually consists of short, overhanging, climbs that consist of less than 20 intense moves. Sounds just like HIT. Except we boulder 10-20 of these problems a &#039;session&#039; (rock climbing term for a day on the rocks) and I usually have a good session at least 3 times a week.

And obviously you want to get better at climbing, you want to do more problems, and find the most amazing movement possible. Which entails 3 parts:

-1. Learning technique and &#039;beta&#039; (the way to do the climb), developed quickly, just from being exposed to the sport
-2. Working a problem, or &#039;projecting&#039;, where you repeatedly work a boulder problem that&#039;s outside your range
-3. Training. Involving hangboard workouts (similar to a pull-up bar, simulates different types of climbing holds), calesthenics, and campus rungs (basically tiny vertical monkey bars)

All of this sounds like way overboard on the quantity level according to your thinking, but I&#039;d argue VERY good quality.

You can&#039;t say it&#039;s ineffective. I&#039;m the strongest I&#039;ve ever been, and my core climbing community has the highest concentration of wickedly strong people I&#039;ve met in my entire life.

So if it&#039;s not strictly inneffective;
Am I putting my joints, muscles, and body at risk?
Am I training myself to death?
Should I stop climbing so much?


Even if the answers are yes, I wouldn&#039;t. Because I love it too much.

-Austin

p.s. I hate running and agree that aerobic usually just destroys your body. But unfortunately, I&#039;ve gotta get used to it, I&#039;m joining the Air Force in the fall.
p.s.s. Check out Aguille, the gym in Orlando</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have some good points in this article. I believe your HIT workouts work; I have several friends who follow HIT programs and it definitely works for them. However, in my case, and the community I belong to present an interesting challenge. I am a rock climber (ironic, I live in florida) but I live for the sport. I boulder, lead trad and sport, mountaineer, and climb at the gainesville rock gym as much as I possibly can. Why? Exercise? No. It&#8217;s because I love it. I think rock climbing is one of the most beautiful things I&#8217;ve ever experienced in this physical life, second only to sex. So it fits into the recreation category, right?</p>
<p>Maybe not&#8230; Rock climbing, bouldering especially, requires strength that most people absolutely cannot comprehend. Not to be purposefully conceded or prideful about the sport, but some of the movements I&#8217;ve seen/done in my climbing career are not only breathtakingly beautiful, but unsurpassed in required physical ability, that again, leaves the average joe in awe. </p>
<p>My favorite type of climbing is bouldering, which usually consists of short, overhanging, climbs that consist of less than 20 intense moves. Sounds just like HIT. Except we boulder 10-20 of these problems a &#8216;session&#8217; (rock climbing term for a day on the rocks) and I usually have a good session at least 3 times a week.</p>
<p>And obviously you want to get better at climbing, you want to do more problems, and find the most amazing movement possible. Which entails 3 parts:</p>
<p>-1. Learning technique and &#8216;beta&#8217; (the way to do the climb), developed quickly, just from being exposed to the sport<br />
-2. Working a problem, or &#8216;projecting&#8217;, where you repeatedly work a boulder problem that&#8217;s outside your range<br />
-3. Training. Involving hangboard workouts (similar to a pull-up bar, simulates different types of climbing holds), calesthenics, and campus rungs (basically tiny vertical monkey bars)</p>
<p>All of this sounds like way overboard on the quantity level according to your thinking, but I&#8217;d argue VERY good quality.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t say it&#8217;s ineffective. I&#8217;m the strongest I&#8217;ve ever been, and my core climbing community has the highest concentration of wickedly strong people I&#8217;ve met in my entire life.</p>
<p>So if it&#8217;s not strictly inneffective;<br />
Am I putting my joints, muscles, and body at risk?<br />
Am I training myself to death?<br />
Should I stop climbing so much?</p>
<p>Even if the answers are yes, I wouldn&#8217;t. Because I love it too much.</p>
<p>-Austin</p>
<p>p.s. I hate running and agree that aerobic usually just destroys your body. But unfortunately, I&#8217;ve gotta get used to it, I&#8217;m joining the Air Force in the fall.<br />
p.s.s. Check out Aguille, the gym in Orlando</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/05/high-intensity-training-on-duration/comment-page-1/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=327#comment-133</guid>
		<description>GWWN is right, although rather than labeling it &#039;pain&#039; I would classify it as the general population&#039;s desire to avoid physical discomfort.  Mix that in with the preponderance of injury provoking, and marginal &#039;results-producing&#039; exercise prescriptions championed by the so-called fitness industry, and it&#039;s no wonder most fail to see any measurable long term benefits from exercise.

In a perfect world, people will be taught from an early age the way to have life-long strength--and the accompanying physical benefits--is from properly conducted strength training.

For those with an aversion to physical discomfort, it should also become a common-place recommendation they seek out a physical trainer to help administer their &#039;weekly-dose&#039; of exercise.  All too often I read newspaper, or online fitness articles that suggest hiring a trainer for 4 or 5 sessions until you &#039;learn the exercises&#039; as if having a trainer is a luxury, and not a necessity for 95% of the population that won&#039;t self-administer their dosage of weekly exercise.  What good is knowing how to brush your teeth, if you don&#039;t actually do it?

With this in mind, it&#039;s unfortunate that some people that manage large fitness facilities don&#039;t realize the incredible opportunity offered by having properly trained staff administer once-a-week exercise sessions.  All you have to do is look at fitness industry numbers to see the turnover most commercial facilities experience.  If these facilities promoted--at least as an option--once-a-week supervised HIT sessions, they&#039;d engage a whole subset of the population that would gladly &#039;suffer through&#039; exercise, and actually stick with it long-term --especially if it produces results and is only once-a-week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GWWN is right, although rather than labeling it &#8216;pain&#8217; I would classify it as the general population&#8217;s desire to avoid physical discomfort.  Mix that in with the preponderance of injury provoking, and marginal &#8216;results-producing&#8217; exercise prescriptions championed by the so-called fitness industry, and it&#8217;s no wonder most fail to see any measurable long term benefits from exercise.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, people will be taught from an early age the way to have life-long strength&#8211;and the accompanying physical benefits&#8211;is from properly conducted strength training.</p>
<p>For those with an aversion to physical discomfort, it should also become a common-place recommendation they seek out a physical trainer to help administer their &#8216;weekly-dose&#8217; of exercise.  All too often I read newspaper, or online fitness articles that suggest hiring a trainer for 4 or 5 sessions until you &#8216;learn the exercises&#8217; as if having a trainer is a luxury, and not a necessity for 95% of the population that won&#8217;t self-administer their dosage of weekly exercise.  What good is knowing how to brush your teeth, if you don&#8217;t actually do it?</p>
<p>With this in mind, it&#8217;s unfortunate that some people that manage large fitness facilities don&#8217;t realize the incredible opportunity offered by having properly trained staff administer once-a-week exercise sessions.  All you have to do is look at fitness industry numbers to see the turnover most commercial facilities experience.  If these facilities promoted&#8211;at least as an option&#8211;once-a-week supervised HIT sessions, they&#8217;d engage a whole subset of the population that would gladly &#8216;suffer through&#8217; exercise, and actually stick with it long-term &#8211;especially if it produces results and is only once-a-week.</p>
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		<title>By: Girlwithnoname (Jackie)</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/05/high-intensity-training-on-duration/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Girlwithnoname (Jackie)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=327#comment-130</guid>
		<description>HA!!  One of my favourite ways to exercise (and yah, I&#039;m one of those with a few screws loose that considers EXERCISE to be fun.  Then again, I do almost nothing active for what you call &#039;recreation&#039;... unless beating the hell out of yourself with HIT or HIIT can, in any way be classified as &#039;recreation&#039;!!

May I interject one point?  you start out the article stating that &#039;time&#039; is one of the reasons people find not to exercise.  May I point out one of the other reasons?  

PAIN!  LOL.  

I know lots of people that don&#039;t exercise because they don&#039;t like the FEELING of it.  HIT is not gonna cure THAT issue... because baby, HIT HURTS!!!!!  (and those of us with a screw loose love to hurt ourselves that way).

Luckily HIT hurts for a less amount of time than traditional lifting or cardio, but it does hurt MORE for that lesser amount of time.

In any case, just shut up and do it, its a great way to exercise.  Your body will thank you.

ok, I gotta go do some hillsprints now!!  haha

thanks Dream.  Always love reading your stuff.
GWNN</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA!!  One of my favourite ways to exercise (and yah, I&#8217;m one of those with a few screws loose that considers EXERCISE to be fun.  Then again, I do almost nothing active for what you call &#8216;recreation&#8217;&#8230; unless beating the hell out of yourself with HIT or HIIT can, in any way be classified as &#8216;recreation&#8217;!!</p>
<p>May I interject one point?  you start out the article stating that &#8216;time&#8217; is one of the reasons people find not to exercise.  May I point out one of the other reasons?  </p>
<p>PAIN!  LOL.  </p>
<p>I know lots of people that don&#8217;t exercise because they don&#8217;t like the FEELING of it.  HIT is not gonna cure THAT issue&#8230; because baby, HIT HURTS!!!!!  (and those of us with a screw loose love to hurt ourselves that way).</p>
<p>Luckily HIT hurts for a less amount of time than traditional lifting or cardio, but it does hurt MORE for that lesser amount of time.</p>
<p>In any case, just shut up and do it, its a great way to exercise.  Your body will thank you.</p>
<p>ok, I gotta go do some hillsprints now!!  haha</p>
<p>thanks Dream.  Always love reading your stuff.<br />
GWNN</p>
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