Expected read time for most people to change their life- 13-16 minutes
Purpose
To (further) debunk widely accepted and heavily promoted misconceptions in the field of exercise in one comprehensive post- albeit in the least abrasive (knee jerk reaction producing) way possible.
And hopefully- in a nation that has fallen flat on it’s face in pure frustration and abysmal results for time invested, with no hope in sight in terms of exercise, nutrition, and disease- to provide valid insight into how our bodies work and point people in the right direction for further, practical information and application for immediate results that are often desperately needed.
Background
In no way, shape, or form am I the most qualified person to be creating such a post, but I am qualified none the less. I have experienced enough of the aforementioned topics and read enough multiple thousands of pages on (legitimate) exercise science to spot bull shit when I see it- and today, I’ll be sharing those undoubtedly controversial findings with the world.
Specific Experience
I am walking my talk in the best shape of my life, with less aches and pains than ever before. My genetics are not superior- all extended and immediate family members are of a less ideal body composition, and are significantly weaker. Nor have any, as far as I know, ever enjoyed the level of strength I currently enjoy without the use of illegal drugs and/or supplements- of which, I have never taken, nor will I ever- aside from a minimal amount of whey protein (no creatine, no testosterone enhancers, no NO2 BS, nothing, just whole food).
My results are a direct result of my training efforts and nutritional habits- this is supported by basic logic for any rationally thinking human being, as well as by more extensive research by “scientists”- in their right mind (meaning, detached from their emotions and actually in search of the truth).
In no way are they “incredible”- because I am not a genetic anomaly- but they are very real, and I believe somewhat close to my genetic potential in relation to my current age and the hormone levels currently present within my body at the tender age of 20 years old (21 in a few weeks).
What is Proper Exercise?
Proper exercise contains four fundamental elements. The first three are dictated directly by our evolution over the course of ~2.5 million years, the fourth perhaps less directly by evolution.
Proper exercise must be…
- Brief
- Intense
- Infrequent
This is not a matter of debate, it is a matter of strict fact.
Anaerobic metabolism is far more ancient than aerobic, and it is how our bodies are best designed to partake in physical activity for the purpose of enhanced “fitness”, “functional ability”, and anything else you can name and therefore label and conceptualize as a benefit- without undermining our health in the process (now, and later)- which is completely unacceptable (and unnecessary for best results) for any sane human being without a fatal disease.
Of course, if you are for some reason compelled to compete in long duration events, you must train specifically for those events for the (primary) purpose of improved motor skill in the chosen activity (and the specific movements involved).
Meaning if you want to run a half marathon, you need to practice, by running half marathons. If you want to swim in short, intense intervals, you need to practice swimming, in short, intense intervals. Cardiovascular adaptations will happen, but they are secondary (and specific to the activity) in comparison to improved efficiency of motion.
Muscular hypertrophy (as dictated by your set genetic potential), as produced by proper exercise, is the ultimate foundation for excelling at your chosen activity, point blank period.
This of course directly opposes the decades of collective conventional wisdom purported by coaches, trainers, and “elite” athletes who competitively excel (short term) for reasons outside of their training efforts and dietary habits- and in some extreme cases, directly in spite of their efforts.
Going further, human ego commonly causes these same- usually well intentioned- people to think of themselves as authorities on exercise and nutrition (most often, for any purpose), with and without clever rationalizations.
Michael Phelps and his relentless eating of Mcdonalds and other refined carbohydrates for the sake of calorie intake as a prime example, alongside the candy fiend Lamar Odom, and let’s not forget the UFC heavyweight champ Randy Couture and his excessive focus on alkalinity (which does have some credit, but is ultimately a fair bit of quackery) and raw foods.
…
The fourth fundamental principle of proper exercise is safety. Thankfully, safety- in an acute and chronic sense- can be had with the application of basic logic, modern technology, and perhaps most critical of all, rational thought.
Detaching our emotions, beliefs, and superstitions surrounding life threatening- or empowering- endeavors such as exercise and nutrition is a true gift from a higher power. Unfortunately, current mainstream thinking on these subjects fails miserably to make that uniquely human, mental leap.
Perhaps one day it will, but at the moment, it certainly hasn’t.
Specifics of the 4 Principles and more on “safety”
The first 3 keys of proper exercise are a matter of debate when it comes to specifics- for no single reason, however I believe the biggest one is simply that genetics vary from individual to individual regarding recovery time and muscle inroad (ego fueled opinion, myself included, is also a major factor in the majority of cases).
Hence, there is no “one ultimate way” to exercise- in the field of the first 3 principles of brief, intense, and infrequent.
However, the fourth fundamental of proper exercise- safety- is not a matter of debate.
As previously stated safety must account for both immediate trauma related injury, as well as long term overuse injuries- which vary in degree from individual to individual for both the reason of un-chosen genetics set at birth, and nutritional choices (omega 3 to 6 fatty acid ratio, as a simple example).
Overuse injuries can be correctly paralleled to disease as a result of chain smoking for decades. Some people can smoke tobacco, and the horrid array of chemicals in cigarettes, their entire life, with minimal to no issues.
However, the majority of the human population can not- despite our incredibly resilient bodies that are capable of incredible feats in the worst of circumstances, and minds that can & have created cures to once fatal diseases.
And all that said, I will repeat my thoughts from previous writings
You can not out train a bad diet, and you can not out eat a bad training program.
If you are irreversibly determined to participate in long duration, high volume and force activities- more frequently than for pure recreational purposes- eating properly can help.
But, unless your genetics are set to avoid overuse injuries (20 years later, your shoulder “acts up out of no where”), eating correctly- in accordance with our evolution- will not save you.
It can help mitigate the negative effects of excessive physical (and by definition, damaging) activity, but it will not completely halt them. You have been warned.
Also, no diet or level of mental awareness can account for the statistically inevitable trauma related injury over the course of many years- which could very well be severe or even permanent in nature.
All that said, safety should be the highest priority by far, for everyone. The real life application of this simple truth?
Strength training. No exceptions, just pure progressive strength training that follows the first three keys of proper exercise (which again, are a matter of debate).
The equipment is a matter of debate- however all can produce excellent results, for all reasonably healthy individuals.
Barbells, dumbbells, commonly found (yet preferably from better brands) strength training machines, more advanced motorized machines, and of course- body weight exercises.
Driving Home The Pyramid of Physical Activity (my version anyway)
Credit goes to Patrick Diver of Greyhound Fitness for this concept.
Proper exercise- safe, intense, infrequent, and brief, progressive strength training as we have identified at this point- is the foundation of my physical activity pyramid.
The resulting muscular hypertrophy will always support all other physical endeavors in ways not possible with conventional exercises modalities such as P90x, Primal Fitness, Cross Fit, Functional and Explosive Training, “Cardio”, group exercise classes, endurance training, aerobics, and so on.
This applies for every human being on the planet, regardless of age, ethnicity, gender, genetic potential (physical deformities aside), and so on.
No matter the goal, proper exercise is the definitive way to support it- from competitive sports, to marathons (for example, as a means to help prevent extreme muscle wasting), to weight loss, it is far superior in every way imaginable.
While we will not get into great detail in this post regarding my pyramid of physical activity, on September 8th there is a speech I gave recently releasing free on my website, The21Convention.com, that details the pyramid further.
Popular Modalities of Exercise That Do Not Appreciate or Understand the Four Fundamental Principles of Proper Exercise
Before getting into each specific program and what they are misunderstanding, I would like to announce that any past attempts to undermine my own credibility or reputation with emotional knee-jerk reactions and out lashes are nothing short childish, silly, and clearly demonstrate the commenter’s own ignorance and/or current lack of ability to argue on an objective and rational level.
If you have “beliefs” that differ from what I’m about to tell you concerning each program, please get a hold of yourself before commenting in a way that only brings embarrassment and/or external validation to yourself in an attempt to preserve your ego (the image you have of yourself, in this case referring to extended experience with the programs listed below).
Rise above your instincts, don’t fall below.
Thank you =)
P90x
My previous post on P90x was poorly written (by my own standards), but ended up attracting a lot of attention worldwide thanks to pro golfer John Daly.
It should be known the post was not written to attract attention or generate profit of any kind for me personally, it was simply written in an abrasive tone and posted without due thought. Anyone telling you a fabricated lie about some secret plan I had for it to attract attention to TDL, is full of horse shit and/or grossly misinformed.
The relentless comments on that thread specifically inspired me to write this post as a semi-end all post on my thoughts regarding the subject. Or in other words, I realized a full post would help many more people than hard to find comments- no matter how popular the post.
As for P90x, my thoughts generally stand. Better results can be had in dramatically less time, less frequently, with less volume, and in a far safer manner.
And as a quick comic relief- although I am dead serious- I believe proper exercise as I have detailed above should be performed for best results if P90x were to be used for recreational purposes. Although, I can’t imagine anyone that would do such a thing for pure recreation once they understood the effects of the physical activity suggested within P90x, including oxidative damage, risk of injury, and so on.
Anthony (“Tony”) Horton is blinded by his own arrogance and financial success (which, is completely irrelevant to proper exercise).
To specifically quote him- Anthony Horton- from his FaceBook fan account- of which an unaltered screen shot can be seen here for those inclined.
No need to respond. This in not a topic that requires debate. When things get popular people try to knock it down. The results are real. We’ve seen it tens of thousands of times. Maybe Mr. Dream should hang out with other naysayers like John Daily.
This was in regard to a link to my former P90x post from a fan of his.
While I have made similar comments in this very post, the context in which he made those statements- specifically “this is not a topic that requires debate”- were the words of an arrogant fool.
There is no question about it, plain and simple ignorance laced with arrogance.
While the 4 principles of proper exercise for human beings are universal, the specifics of the first three are still under heavy debate- have been for decades, and will continue to be a matter of debate for decades to come.
To paraphrase best selling author, world renowned authority on exercise physiology, and medical doctor Doug Mcguff
“No subject of importance is widely agreed upon”
I agree with this wholeheartedly- as would any sane individual.
Unfortunately- and this is not a personal attack but a matter of observation- Tony appears to behave like a child at 51 years old when it comes to his exercise program, and therefore is lacking a level of maturity- and as strong as it sounds, sanity.
From Tony Horton, in further regard to me personally and The Dream Lounge. (Of which a screen shot can be seen here, which I suggest you download before it is removed from the hosting service).
How do you disagree with something that works for so many people? It’s like criticizing air or water. There is no right or wrong here. People are moving and improving their lives. Who cares how they do it? I didn’t create a program based on some scientific process that works based on theory. I created a program based on what worked for me and my clients. Half the military, hundreds of celebrities, professional athletes and over 2 million Americans use P90X, so you’re opinion doesn’t matter.
Again, while Tony may have the body of an adult, he is demonstrating the mental capacity of an upset child. I can appreciate the exercise effect (which does not equate to effective exercise, in the words of Drew Baye) of P90x- and the results he sees in his customers- but this is no excuse for someone of his age to be blinded by those skewed results (that are not typical for most people across a broad scale).
P90x is too frequent, not intense enough (intensity not to be confused with excessive volume), too long of a duration, and certainly not safe- now or in the long term- especially for those not already in above average physical condition, regardless of the modifications provided in the instructional videos.
There is simply too much force, and too much volume for best results, regardless of individual nutritional and lifestyle habits, as well as pre-determined genetics.
Therefore it is not proper exercise, despite its shiny packaging, gimmicky sales copy, and uninformed opinions of customers- regardless of their stature in Western society.
Military, celebrity, and your best friend alike.
This is not a matter of debate- he added slyly
As for the nutritional aspect of P90x (or should I be saying, Px90 to avoid a potential law suit), I am a huge supporter of the vast *majority* of Mark Sissons’s views. From what I understand, Mark Sisson played a significant role in the development of the P90x diet plan.
And while I am not well versed on the nutritional portion of P90x, from what I understand it is not the same exact eating philosophy as described in The Primal Blueprint.
What I have gathered about the plan is that it supports supplementation more strongly than Mark- of which I already think Mark is slightly too supportive of for reasons unrelated to proper nutrition.
The fact that those views are amplified is enough for me to also disapprove of the dietary recommendations- although I do suspect it is better than the Standard American Diet.
Then again, smoking filtered cigarettes is probably .001% better for your health than unfiltered. While perhaps that is too strong a comparison, the principle is none the less, the same.
Also, from my limited understanding, P90x has a relatively high recommendation of carbohydrate intake at certain points- which was by far the rarest macro nutrient for the human race over the course of our entire 2.5 million years of evolution- further compelling me to recommend not following the dietary guidelines provided by the program- however they rationalize the excess carbohydrate intake (I assume, for enhanced recovery, when in fact excessive carbohydrate for that purpose may stifle potential gains for proper exercise by interrupting hormone changes that result from intense exercise).
Again, the information I have to work with is limited, but those are my current thoughts on the nutritional plan as previously requested by readers.
“Cardio”
To continue on in the spirit of the lengthy title and chronological order, let’s briefly discuss “cardio”- which strangely enough has it’s own Wikipedia page.
“Cardio” is first and foremost, a slang term. It is not actually a word, no matter how much those with financial incentives want everyone to believe.
For the most part, it is a concept based on archaic- and usually romantic- misconceptions about exercise and how the body functions.
The cardiovascular system- which it undoubtedly refers to- will always be best trained through muscular contractions- preferably of a meaningful intensity- not any one random physical activity (running, elliptical machines, swimming, and so on).
Low level, steady state, aerobic activity does little besides increase hunger (to a degree that can easily produce negative results in terms of body composition/fat), as recently discussed in Time Magazine.
Of course, this has been known for decades by informed individuals- but mainstream thinking often takes many years to catch on.
As for the notion that you can literally take your heart and lungs out, plop them on a treadmill, and train them separate from your muscles- it is entirely and 100% false. This is perhaps the silliest notion of all when it comes to misconceptions about exercise.
The heart and lungs will always fall in line behind improvements in skeletal muscle- meaning “cardio” benefits are secondary to muscular hypertrophy.
Specific skill training can result in specific cardiovascular adaptations- none of which are required for vibrant and optimal health- but those adaptations can disappear as quickly as they appear.
A better, more accurate way to look at “cardio” is a concept called “metabolic conditioning”, which you can read more about here.
I want to move on, but will mention that “cardio” can cause a significant decrease in lean tissue- and therefore slow your metabolism in severe cases- myself included at one point in time.
Aerobics and Group Exercise Classes
Both of these fall largely into the category of “cardio”, however I felt they deserved their own mention due to my former involvement with the latter and their widespread popularity, nation wide.
“Aerobics” is another slang term without a formal definition. Yes, aerobic is a word, but not aerobics.
This improper modality of exercise was created long ago by a doctor named Kenneth Cooper. While seemingly well intentioned, Kenneth Cooper to this day holds on dearly to his long held beliefs about aerobics.
His (as far as I know) infamous Vo2 max test completely disregards the human bodies ability to improve efficiency of motion through learned repetitions. It is a relatively useless test. In fact, some studies have shown oxygen uptake (which is what it measures) to be up to 95% genetically pre-determined.
Combine that with the fact that metabolic condition (cardio) can come and go relatively quickly, and you begin to see why a ~5% improvement is not worth hundreds of hours of work- alongside the repetitive wear and tear of the involved activities (especially in the pursuit of long term health, and even performance if recovery is taken into consideration).
Time is much better spent resting between workouts, than performing “aerobics”, regardless of the goal.
“Group Fitness”, which I once taught at the University of Central Florida, is largely just a new verbal spin on an old (outdated) form of exercise.
It fails to meet the 4 requirements of proper exercise, and has little use outside of recreation, and in some rare cases specific skill training (I taught jump rope, for example).
Cross Fit, Primal Fitness, and all forms of “Functional” and Endurance Training
I have previously written about Cross Fit and Primal Fitness, here.
In short, these movements understand and appreciate the first three principles of proper exercise, but seemingly ignore the final- and most important of all- principle, safety.
In the case of Mark Sisson and the “primal living” movement, they are tunnel visioned into imitating our ancestors habits concerning physical activity. Yes, our evolution dictated our habits for best results, but ultimately we can improve upon those habits as previously stated in the safety section.
What interests me most is how Mark Sisson- author of The Primal Blueprint and MarksDailyApple.com- can appreciate modern improvements in nutrition- whey protein for example, which was not found in our ancestors diets- but when it comes to exercise is completely blinded into mimicking “Grok’s habits”.
The Cross Fit crowd falls prey largely to the same error in thinking- although perhaps even more focused on “functional” and explosive training.
Fact- it is damn near impossible to produce “in functional” muscle.
People that tell you this are confusing (and mixing, for less than optimal results) motor skill with muscular hypertrophy.
Ideally, when you have separate goals in exercise and peak performance, you separate the activities- into proper exercise, and specific skill training (say, sprints for a sport that requires, sprints)- and perhaps some mild recreation for minimal recovery benefits between intense sessions of progressive strength training (proper exercise).
For further reading on why explosive training is not ideal, please read this post by Drew Baye.
As for endurance training, I believe at this point in the article it would be unnecessary to further delve into the subject. In short, I encourage people to do so- if they are absolutely determined to compete in that type of activity.
For the purpose of vibrant health, peak performance, and elite fitness, long duration activities are completely unnecessary and void our evolutionarily dictated habits concerning exercise and best results- now, and later.
A Final Point…isn’t something better than nothing?
Simply put, no.
Performing a sub par (improper) exercise program for any length of time is (very) rarely better for you than doing nothing.
Eating properly will maintain a decent level of body composition and overall health for all but the most extreme cases- exercising improperly however can have devastating effects, now, and later.
Please see Drew Baye’s post here for further info, as well as this article by Arthur Devany on Why Not to Run Marathons (one example of many, I’m sure those who will connect the dots, will do so at this point, or not at all).
In Summary
I hope you have kept an open mind up to this point and are beginning to challenge YOUR OWN long held beliefs about exercise- whether you are Tony Horton, Mark Sisson, or just a random passer by on the net.
I carry little bias or allegiance to any one specific modality of training- I just do what I feel is best for me, and as a result you. I am selfish in that sense, and am not ashamed of it- again, I believe you can benefit from my own passion of searching for the truth in a world filled with loads rubbish on exercise and nutrition.
To further understand the concepts I have discussed within this post (that’s right, I am not asking you to take my word alone on any of this) I encourage you to pickup a copy of Body by Science, the definitive book on exercise with enough citations to choke a horse.
Please be wary of people trying to sell you shit you don’t need- well intentioned or not.
As a final request- and in a strange way- I ask you to step back and take a closer look at the future comments to this post (ironicaly, and despite my best efforts, this post is still polarizing- perhaps minimally “abrasive”, but still strong enough to cause die hard fans of the discussed programs to “revolt”), as well as the previous P90x post linked earlier.
Not all, but many are/will be simply emotional responses or even personal attacks in some cases- all void of simple logic or hard science.
This does not directly reflect on the creators of specific exercise programs/movements, but it is interesting to observe none the less from a psychological perspective- and serves as a cautionary tale when it comes to being a part of the majority, by my estimation.
Thank you for your time, I look forward to discussing these subjects intelligently with everyone.
-Anthony “Dream” Johnson
ha ha, well, I don’t know if it came off in the “least abrasive” manner possible, but at least you call it like you see it Anthony, no matter what anybody thinks. I originally came to your thoughts on this blog (and Body by Science) via your comment about a month or so ago over on Mark Sisson’s site. That site brought an internal revolution for me in terms of nutrition which left no doubt. I can’t say I exactly feel the same lack of doubts when it comes to Body by Science, but despite my mental resistance, intuition wins out over doubt and I know that you are right about this as clearly as I know Mark is right regarding nutrition. I bought Body by Science and practice the protocol, I stopped doing any other form of “exercise” and based on the diet outlined by Mark, have still continued to lose fat.
So, thanks for sharing your uncensored thoughts on the matter of exercise. It’s totally changed my approach forever, even though you do kind of come off like a punk.
Hey Ted
I’m glad to hear the content has helped you and that you are seeing results with Mark’s nutritional guidelines- of which, I think are they are some of the best in the world. I may have been a bit harsh on Mark in this post, but yeah his blog kicks ass, especially when it comes to nutrition.
Thank you for taking the time to comment and be upfront with me, especially the punk part =), have to admit I grinned a bit when I first read that because your dead on haha.
thanks
-Dream
Hey Anthony, great post, again. I saw the debate going on on Tony Horton’s Facebook page yesterday (humorously enough, when I saw on my sidebar “Tony Horton – Anthony Johnson is a fan”. I know that’s just the nature of Facebook, but I digress).
It was pretty sad to see TH resort to ad hominem attacks “you’re (sic) opinion doesn’t matter”, especially when you made it clear in your original p90x post that this was about the system and not the man. He did come off as completely arrogant and immature.
You *may* be a punk, Dream, but at least you say it honest to yourself, with concern for the truth.
No matter the consequences of our beliefs, we must stand by them – and only change when change is necessary for furthering truth.
I hate it when people either stick by a belief arrogantly (emotionally attached), or change beliefs upon an emotional stimulus (anger, revenge, fear, etc), when logically the antithesis of their argument is true.
To sum, if you are emotionally attached to a belief, there is a very good chance you will be irrationally biased. Emotional discipline is imperative to make a logical, truthful decision.
This is why I am a fan of yours, Dream. Not only is this concept displayed in T21C, through your integrity to keep the content free, but through your pursuit for fitness and health truth. As long as you keep your priority on track (for health AND fitness, not one or the other, and never exclusively profit), you will remain in my trust, as well as numerous others who read this blog.
And while you may have a slight emotional bias towards these fitness “programs,” the root of this emotion stays consistent to your belief – you genuinely want truth.
Keep up the good work, stay true to yourself, and keep leading.
~Alexander, “Zen”
Hey Dream
I have been doing the “big 5″ workout for about 5 months now (been very successful), but I want to know if it is necessary to change the routine from time to time.
I have noticed that you have changed yours not quit a lot, but I am not nearly as clued up about exercise as you so if I should change my program, witch exercises should I change, keep etc?
Cloud
10 minutes a week, huh?
I’m not buying it, kid. Your vast database of knowledge built up over the twenty years you’ve been alive tells you all you need to do is exercise 10 minutes a week? Okay. Whatever.
Interesting that no one has bothered challenging you here….or have you deleted all the negative comments?
I’ve been training people professionally for nearly 20 years during which I’ve worked with hundreds of people from severely debilitated post rehab clients to professional athletes, using the principles Anthony is talking about.
10 minutes weekly is on the extreme end, but if done correctly, then yeah, that’s all a person needs. Some will benefit from a little more, but even at the high end the absolute most anybody would require would be three thirty minute workouts on non-consecutive days, and most would actually do better training less than that.
Not true. Mark Sisson was responsible for developing the supplements in P90X, not the nutrition plan. Carrie Wiatt came up with the diet.
Anthony-
I have to give you props for thinking outside of the box. It’s something that very few people do these days.
I found your site through the free videos form the U21 but I was also looking for an alternative to the P90X. I have it, and I’ve tried it. My joints just WON’T support it. I’ve seen guys older/bigger than me doing it but years of martial arts etc. have been hell on my joints. I *NEEDED* an alternative. HIT was it. So Tony, if you’re reading. There are OTHER ways that are at least as effective as what you do. Not to mention that if I can do something at least as effective and only spend 20 mins a week on it. I’m all over it.
My hat goes off to Dr. McGuff and to Anthony for not being afraid to go against the grain and using SCIENCE to debunk the myth made by people who are ultimately peddling supplements.
-G
Awesome post!
I can’t recommend Body by Science enough to folks looking for proper exercise, also Primal Blueprint for proper nutrition. And thanks to Dream for recommending both of those books to me!
@Doubters – if you want to debunk Dream’s exercise and nutritional ‘beliefs’ then you need to start finding/posting scientific evidence to support your claims or proving the science in BBS and PB is flawed. Simply saying ‘It worked for me’ doesn’t cut it, and the long-term effects of traditional exercise may be very brutal to your body.
I would be the first to admit that I’m wrong if someone can prove the science behind BBS and PB is bad science. So far most of the science, that I’ve seen, which supports traditional exercise is severely flawed.
I agree with most of your observations, with one caveat. You wrote:
“Muscular hypertrophy (as dictated by your set genetic potential), as produced by proper exercise, is the ultimate foundation for excelling at your chosen activity, point blank period.”
Are you saying that bigger muscles (hypertrophy) is the ultimate foundation for excelling? Because I can think of countless instances where increased STRENGTH, not necessarily size, is what propels one to excel. Added size can actually be detrimental for rock climbers and infantrymen…they don’t need size, but do need strength. “Wiry strength’, that much overused marketing term by Pavel and DD is nevertheless actually quite descriptive, in my opinion, of a beneficial fitness target.
Diamond,
The argument is that ‘wiry strength’ vs. ‘bodybuilder size’ is a matter of genetics, not exercise program. Building strength for a rock-climber is still a matter of muscle hypertrophy, just within their own genetics.
If you disagree, what is the cause of increased strength, if not muscle hypertrophy? Or, what creates ‘wiry strength’, physiologically?
-Nicky
I would point out, that not every part of P90X is hard on joints, plyometrics maybe, but that’s about it. Everything else is slow controlled movements.
We’re the 1 percenters!!!!!!!!!!
Ha… It’s like any field of importance as Doug said. Its simply a battle that cant be won in my opinion. Some people are just a little bit neive, they are sheep, they follow the leaders, they follow “most popular”, they cant look upon themselves for the real truth. The “1 percenters” can!
In my years of experience, I’ve seen ways of exercise that worked for some, ways that worked for none, and all in between. I’ve read countless books and research on the subjects of health, weight loss, etc. What I’ve come to find is that what works for one person will not work for another. The best thing is to do what you want to do, keeping the 4 fundamental elements that ‘the Dream’ focuses on in mind. If you love to bike, do it; run, do it; kayak, do it; rock climb, do it. Our ancestors swam some, ran some, walked a lot, sometimes picked up heavy things, and played (whatever their version was). But in the end, it’s all about what makes your mind at ease.
Thanks for the posts. They are thought provoking.
@John S
Ya, despite not having a problem with Tony personally, I kinda cringed becoming a “fan” of his facebook page lol.
@Alexander
Thank you for the kind words. They hit home pretty hard, and I’m glad I can give value back, regardless of the topic or format.
@Cloud
Yes you should change up your routine from time to time- at least temporarily. That said, if you are still seeing steady progress 5 months in with the same routine, hell stick with it.
I have experimented with a lot of different concepts, from a/b routines, to new machines, free weights, partial repetitions, rest pause and other set extenders, and so on.
There is no easy answer to your question, but ya, if your progress has halted try something new. Body by Science offers a lot of options, and you can even think outside the box (try a slightly faster rep cadence, or shorter TUL than suggested with a heavier weight).
Experiment and learn =). Also, try visiting bodybyscience.net, Doug Mcguff is always answering questions directly and he could add a ton of insight to your question.
@justaxfitter
10 minutes is arbitrary, it could be 8 minutes, it could be closer to 15 or 20 (like my workout yesterday). Believe what you will, I’m not here to force ideas upon anyone. I’ve had great results with minimal, but intense, training, and I have chosen to share the concepts behind those results with the world.
As for deleting comments, I have done no such thing in this post- or ever for that matter except in the most extreme of cases. Check the previous P90x post for some really rude comments to see for yourself.
I spent a lot more time on this post and as a result the quality is higher- it is of little surprise at this point that the quality of comments is higher (although, admittedly, I was a bit concerned upon publishing the article).
@Steven L
My knowledge of the nutrition plan in P90x is limited at best. If I made any factually incorrect statements, I apologize.
@Gary
Thanks for the kind words. I to am sick of people peddling pills and supplements, and I’m glad this post has in at least some small way, undone some of the damage done by those people.
@Dan
“Traditional exercise is severely flawed”
Could not have said it better myself.
@ Diamond
Nicky hit the nail on the head. Muscle is muscle, strength is strength (until motor skill and muscle recruitment is taken into consideration, which have much more to do with specific skill training than proper exercise).
From my understanding, it is physically impossible to build a certain “type” of muscle. Your fiber profile is set at birth, and from there all you can do is make a muscle grow.
Make sense?
@Nicky
Thanks for jumping in, mucho appreciated =)
@Tom
Thank you for commenting, although I would recommend checking out this book sometime
http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/07/11/review-moment-arm-exercise-by-bill-de-simmone/
I did not mention it in the post, but the author discusses how many commonly performed exercises are actually very, very hard on joints. Worth checking out
@Seven
Perhaps, but perhaps Doug and John can grow the “1%” crowd to “2%”, and maybe we can continue to help along the way? =)
@All
Thank you for commenting! I’m glad we could discuss the topics from this post intelligently…it is nothing short of a relief personally. Thanks!
-Dream/Anthony
Anthony,
Ok. This is a much more analytical, and therefore improved, post on this topic. I have taken the time to do some research on HIT and it is interesting. If I ever find myself in a situation where I don’t have the kind of time to exercise like I do now (e.g. the 3 hr bike ride I just finished), I will give it a shot.
As for the comments about Tony, I have not read what he said yet. I probably won’t as I’m not going to fan these flames any further. As I disclosed in a comment on your other post Tony and I are friends. I do think you need to take a moment and realize that your first post was not written the way this one was. If it had been, then you likely would have gotten a different response from TH. Imagine if someone wrote a scathing review of the 21 Convention, something you clearly poured your heart and soul into, and stated it was a fraud designed to bilk young men out of a few bucks and that you were simply in it for the money (please read carefully people – I’m not saying that. This is a hypothetical). You’d take that pretty personally. Tony is no different. I explained the genesis of Tony and P90X on the other post. So, I’m going to have to vehemently disagree with you about who Tony is and his motives as a trainer.
I must say that you’ve shown a great deal of maturity in dealing with this topic. You got blasted pretty hard on the other post and I think you’ve accounted very well for yourself in this response. I’m still going to do P90X and triathlon, but at least you’ve explained what you are talking about here.
I do have one criticism, which is not necessarily directed to you, but this entire debate. In doing my research I found that a lot of HIT advocates (not all, but a lot of them) felt it necessary to frame the debate in a manner that pits HIT against other forms of exercise and essentially says that everything else is crap and lies. I think that’s counterproductive to the message and what I believe is the ultimate goal – a healthier nation. Just some food for thought for the HIT people that might read this. Don’t tell me why what I’m doing isn’t working (it is, and I enjoy it). Tell me what’s great about your program. Why you love it. What about it gets you up in the morning and has you looking forward to that part of your day. Show me the passion, not the venom. Just my two cents.
Dave
I forgot to mention carbs. You are completely correct, that most people get their carbs from foods like pasta that have little micronutrients and really are not the backbone of any sound nutritional plan (IMHO). If you are looking to get more carbs in your diet, you can get them from fruits and veggies, which will also provide you with fiber, vitamins and a whole host of other benefits. Here are a few of my favorites (yeah, I eat collard greens…).
1/4 cup Rasins – 32g
1/2 cup Brussels Sprouts – 7g
1 cup Peas – 25g
1 cup Strawberries – 11g
1 cup Spinach – 7g
1/2 cup Carrots – 8g
1 Orange – 14g
1 cup Collard Greens – 12g
1 ounce Corn – 7g
1 cup Cantaloupe – 15g
1 cup Squash – 30g
1 Sweet Potato – 44g
1 Artichoke – 13g
1 cup Watermelon – 11g
1 cup Green Pepper – 10g
1 cup Broccoli – 4g
1 Peach – 17g
1 Banana – 30g
So, that’s my two cents on carbs. Have a banana, it is good for you.
Dave
(Credit to Joel Friel for nutritional information on various foodstuffs above)
Hey Dave
I want to and likely will comment on more of your response, but at the moment I would like to clarify that this post was not an ad for HIT- it was explaining why strength training was superior to all other forms of training.
Never was HIT as a specific training protocol (or, camp) mentioned. I recommended Body by Science at the end for further ideas and explanations promoting strength training, not HIT specifically.
Although obviously, it is the modality of training I prefer and have had the most success with.
thanks, more soon
-Anthony
Hey Dave
2 more things I wanted to touch on (with all due respect to those that will be mentioned)
A. I believe P90x ultimately has a net negative effect on society as a whole, no different than Kenneth Cooper and the aerobics movement, Jim Fixx and the running movement, Billy Blanks and the “cardio” movement, Arnold S. and the “body building” movement, and so on.
All of these things, ultimately- and on a scientific/factual level- had a net negative effect on the physical health of the United States.
This is a major reason I have decided to oppose programs like P90x so strongly- the overall effect is that of a negative one (especially when monetary costs and invested time are taken into account).
B. The 21 Convention does not fall into the same category since it is a success/advice event, not an exercise program where the net effect will always be measured against hard science (or, should be, for everyone’s sake).
People can bad mouth it all day long, and at this point I would not take it personally. And while this sounds unavoidably arrogant and short sighted, I know my event has a net positive effect on society.
While Tony likely believes the same about his exercise program, scientific fact is stacked against him- much like a “licensed dietitian” promoting the consumption of “whole grains” thinking he/she is doing a good thing for not only the client, but society as a whole in some small way.
-Anthony
Hello,
I’ve read both posts now, and the same problem is still present: despite criticizing P90X endlessly, you STILL haven’t taken the time to actually look at the program. You haven’t read the nutrition plan, you haven’t looked at the workouts, you don’t even know who designed the various aspects of the system. You can’t argue against something if you don’t have direct knowledge about it. You are working off rumours and second-hand information. You are reminding me of the extreme-right wing commentators who rail against the perversity of movies they haven’t seen, or music they haven’t heard.
I can only fall back on my own experiences with both HIT and P90X. I did HIT as prescribed by Ellington Darden for about three months a few years ago. It left me nauseous, tired, and looking for reasons to skip my workouts. I also had no noticeable muscle gains. I started P90X in February of this year, and am now through two rounds. In that time, my passion for fitness has been reborn, my resting heart rate is now in the low 50s, and I’ve gone from 187 lbs and 17% BF to 181 lbs and 11% BF. I’ve never been in better shape.
Is there something better out there? There may well be, and I’m always on the lookout for ways to improve. But for you to slag a product you’ve never seen…well, I kind of have to agree with TH: your opinion really doesn’t matter. Do some actual research, and maybe you’ll have more credibility.
Scott
Stupid post by a stupid man. Not even worth arguing about. He can’t even get simple information like who was responsible for the P90X nutrition plan right. Obviously jealous of TH’s accomplishments, he can deny it all he wants.
@Scott
As previously mentioned in my comments, this post is not an ad for HIT.
The version of high intensity training I perform personally is only one individual form of strength training- which is the overall type of training I promote in this post as, proper exercise- not HIT.
As for purchasing P90x and reviewing it piece by piece, it is grossly unnecessary at this point. I might as well start smoking various packs of cigarettes in an attempt to try each and every brand.
As for your results, congrats. I am glad to hear that, but at the same time I continue to stake my reputation on the fact that better, safer results, can be had, in less time- performing infrequent, brief, and intense sessions of progressive strength training.
Strength training that has been around for over 3 decades, unlike the current fad of P90x/cardio/primal exercises, and so on- which, I can guarantee you, will fade away no different than Beanie Babies did.
As for doing further “research”…according to you and Tony Horton, my opinion doesn’t matter, so what’s the point?
-Anthony
Still strong but a bit more measured version of the P90X post. I thought both were good and worth reading. Thanks for this. I have subscribed permanently now to this blog/site.
jeff
P90X works and it works if you scale it back to 3 days a week. I was skeptical until I noticed these 50-year old men at work losing weight and toning up in just 4 weeks.
I did 3 of the P90X workouts each week for about 6 weeks, lost a couple of inches in my waist and got toned up in what I consider a short amount of time. The Yoga, Kenbo, and Jump Training usually get skipped and I go with the different weight programs.
I don’t know anything about working out. This is the first workout I’ve ever done. I don’t like going to gyms. I don’t like paying membership fees and I like having access to my “gym” (which is really my office) when I want it.
P90X works for me. It’s easy. I don’t know if there’s anything else out there that matters. This program got me and other working out, losing fat, building muscle and getting stronger.
To me, 3 hour-long workouts a week was worth it for me; someone who doesn’t like to workout.
I found this post from another website. It seems like you’ve got something against a product that worked for me. Admittedly I don’t know as much about diet and fitness as you do. But I can spot a shady review of a product.
P90X is a product. They have employees. They have an affiliate program. They have supplemental products and gear that you can buy. When it comes to a total package that is easily marketable to the mass public, P90X works. There’s nothing else out there that comes close. Sure that statement is debatable. But when it comes to mass marketing a workout program, P90X has done a good job and their customers get results.
I think you have discredited a lot of the other great information you have on this website by writing the things you have about P90X.
It would make more sense if you would buy the product and do the whole program and do an honest review. Not analyze the program via Wikipedia, but do actually do the program itself and _want_ it to work for you.
As a supporter of P90X, I’d like to know its weaknesses. You’ve not given me any credible information with supporting evidence.
Hey Eric
“P90X works and it works if you scale it back to 3 days a week. I was skeptical until I noticed these 50-year old men at work losing weight and toning up in just 4 weeks.”
>>Cutting a program in half and still calling it by the same name is hardly fair- and certainly does not fix it’s flaws.
“I did 3 of the P90X workouts each week for about 6 weeks, lost a couple of inches in my waist and got toned up in what I consider a short amount of time. The Yoga, Kenbo, and Jump Training usually get skipped and I go with the different weight programs.”
>>Any random physical activity has the ability to produce “results”. What I’m interested in (and most readers here on TDL apparently) is the best way to achieve the BEST results within our individual potential- in the safest manner possible. P90x hands down, does not do this.
“P90X works for me. It’s easy. I don’t know if there’s anything else out there that matters. This program got me and other working out, losing fat, building muscle and getting stronger.
To me, 3 hour-long workouts a week was worth it for me; someone who doesn’t like to workout. ”
>>A major problem with P90x though is that 20 years from now, there’s a high chance you’ll regret doing it for the wear and tear issues- not to mention risk of immediate injury.
“I found this post from another website. It seems like you’ve got something against a product that worked for me. Admittedly I don’t know as much about diet and fitness as you do. But I can spot a shady review of a product.”
>>As dick headed as it sounds, this is not a review of P90x- nor would I ever take the time to actually buy the product, watch it, do it, review it, and send it back. With all due respect, to the informed individual, it’s a (severely) fundamentally flawed exercise program- if you can even call it that. I know that sounds harsh- because it is. But that’s what I believe to be true of it. You’re not obligated to agree, or even read my writing, but everything I have read up to this point in time points to this conclusion- that P90x is ineffective at best, and downright dangerous at worst- now and later.
“But when it comes to mass marketing a workout program, P90X has done a good job and their customers get results.”
>>And in about 10-15 years, your going to read about people trying to sue Beach Body for a product that destroyed their knees and lower backs. In the mean time you can find rehab centers all over the US attempting to rehab patients from P90x injuries- I shit you not. As for P90x being a marketing success- of that there is no doubt. Fortunately for us, this has nothing to do with real life (safe) results. Tanked or massive success- it’s irrelevant to the practical use of an exercise program for a rationally thinking human being.
“I think you have discredited a lot of the other great information you have on this website by writing the things you have about P90X.”
>>>Seeing as how I’m about the only person on the net with the balls to write content like this about P90x- and screen shot some of the comments from Tony himself- I believe you are sorely mistaken. In a minor way, this post acts as a beacon every time someone googles P90x and finds this post- and it prevents them from wasting their hard earned money on a faulty exercise program. And no, I do not believe the core problem the US has is inactivity- which seems to be the holy grail P90x enthusiasts (including Tony) promote. For the record- intentionally burning calories through physical activity is a massive waste of time.
“As a supporter of P90X, I’d like to know its weaknesses. You’ve not given me any credible information with supporting evidence.”
>>Your life, your body, your hands. Do as you wish, I’ve said enough about P90x. If you’re not catching on at this point, I have nothing left to offer.
good luck
-Anthony
– “A major problem with P90x though is that 20 years from now, there’s a high chance you’ll regret doing it for the wear and tear issues- not to mention risk of immediate injury.”
What is your evidence to back this up?
– “In the mean time you can find rehab centers all over the US attempting to rehab patients from P90x injuries- I shit you not.”
Again, any evidence? “All over the US”? How about naming one rehab center working with former P90X users? BTW, you could (truthfully) say the same thing about rehabbing patients from football, hockey, basketball, soccer, etc…should people stay away from those too?
Hey Scott
Regarding question number one, there isn’t any “evidence” to prove what I said one way or the other- it’s a gamble you take by doing that much activity.
There is however a book however that supports what I’ve said titled Paleopathology at the Origins of Agriculture
Couple excerpts here
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/paleopathology-at-origins-of.html
Including
“One pathology that seems to have decreased with the adoption of agriculture is arthritis. The authors speculate that it may have more to do with strenuous activity than other aspects of the lifestyle such as diet.”
Basically, our ancestors suffered bone/joint problems same as us- but we can now say the reason (somewhat safely) is just too much use. P90x is exactly that- too much. At the same time, it’s also too much volume for best results.
As for immediate injury… with all due respect- does that need explanation? P90x is the epitome of high force/high volume. It doesn’t get much more dangerous.
Regarding other sports, you are mistaking recreation for exercise. By all means, play sports- just know that it is not “exercise”, and neither is any random physical activity. It may have an exercise *effect*, but it is not exercise (the same goes for P90x).
Make sense?
I cover this in video format here
http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/09/07/proper-exercise-and-nutrition/
thanks for commenting
-Anthony
Doing a search on the net for P90X I also found this. I read through all of the first as well as the new one. And agree with Dave Ward that the tone and quality is probably what brought a more civilized discussion. But you’re completely aware that your cockiness comes through. Luckily, I find smart asses funny.
The subject matter definitely makes me curious and will share this information with my husband because we both use the “X” too. But I try very hard to keep an open mind in all things and will give it an honest try so stop rolling your eyes.
Does it make you laugh or frown to read so many comments telling you to try it out before judging? Possibly they weren’t comprehending the words once angered. Because I get it. You have no desire to try something you believe is a hazard. It’s why you compared the brands of cigs.
That other commenter who said something about the masses being sheep. Maybe some of that 99% aren’t sheep, maybe they just didn’t want to get suckered by yet again something that seemed too good to be true.
And now that there may be a different possibility pointed out instead of pounding the old something of worth takes hard work and effort; we’ll instead be touting, work smarter not harder.
Good luck to you Anthony.
“Does it make you laugh or frown to read so many comments telling you to try it out before judging?”
Neither, it makes me (feel) sad- and on occasion, motivated. I will respond to the rest of your comment soon.
thank you
-Anthony
If I may, and for what it’s worth to those who find this post when searching for info about p90x, I’ll offer a few observations as someone who has actually purchased (and completed) the p90x program. At the time, I had been doing Crossfit-inspired training for a while, and decided that p90x was a nice new challenge for me to embrace. (It didn’t hurt that there are people all over the Internet showing pretty impressive physique improvements resulting, ostensibly, from p90x…)
My results, on the face of it, were similarly positive: I leaned up slightly from 12% body fat to 10% (yes, I bought into the huge p90x emphasis on comparing various physical metrics before and after the program) and looked good – people actually commented that I was looking strong and ripped. My vanity was gratified by the compliments, but invisible to observers was the chronic shoulder and lower back strain that I suffered (and still suffer) as a result of p90x. Stubbornly, I forced myself to “push through” the pain/injury signals that emerged about 60 days into it, just for the sake of finishing the 90 days. In hindsight, that was pretty stupid; more than six months since completing p90x, I’m still going to the chiropractor every week trying to mitigate the damage. (Although I certainly can’t blame my stupidity/stubbornness on p90x.)
Bottom line – after finishing, I think I was “fit” (though arguably within a rather specific framework defined by p90x) and looked pretty good, but I was *not* optimally healthy. So these are my (n=1) concerns about p90x:
- In my opinion, it benefits from survivorship bias, in that we only hear about people who see positive results from the program. We don’t see how many people tried it but simply could not withstand the physical toll (or were injured). I count myself among both groups, in part because I just didn’t want to be the guy who couldn’t hack p90x. That would mean something was wrong with ME, not the program (!) when I think the program is actually responsible, for the reasons amply noted by Anthony above. Also, these types of injuries are cumulative and sometimes invisible, which is another way that p90x can benefit from survivorship bias — even those who “survive” with good results may have joint problems years from now that, unknown to them, actually had their roots in the high force protocol embraced by p90x.
- I think p90x promotes over-training and does not allow for (nearly) enough rest, which reinforces the notion that more/harder work is always better (it is not). Since finishing p90x in the spring, I have (somewhat out of necessity) massively scaled back my time spent on resistance training (while also increasing intensity, basically following a BBS approach) and eliminated all “cardio” except for sports/games. I’ll admit it – I do look a little less “ripped,” but I still look very fit, I FEEL much better, and I am just as strong. Plus, I will take being 20% less ripped for spending 80% less time on training, every time.
- The range of motion demonstrated for many exercises is too wide, putting undue pressure on joints and strain on tendons (this is what did me in – mainly, biceps tendon and lumbar spine). This is where I think the concept of “muscle confusion” is taken too far by p90x, to the point where some exercises are more harmful than beneficial just for the sake of doing a “different” movement. On a related note, look carefully at the p90x videos and you will see several examples of Tony cheating like crazy on his form, presumably just so he can sling around bigger dumbbells. This kind of casualness about proper form really bothered me, even when I was gung-ho about following the program.
- I disagree with the p90x nutritional guidance, which I reviewed in detail just out of curiosity (I eat paleo anyway), and I was VERY turned off by the relentless promotion of “beach body” supplements on the videos. Some of their nutrition products are a joke – just check out the sugar content. As one example, the #1 ingredient in their “meal replacement” shake mix is fructose! (For those aware of the damage fructose does, that is just a nightmare.) I don’t know whether Mark Sisson helped them develop all of those products, but I hope not… some of them just fly in the face of the guidance offered on MDA.
Apologies for the length of the post — but perhaps some people will find this information helpful. Thanks for your interesting posts on these topics, Anthony.
Mark
I know the whole intense, brief, infrequent workout has worked for me. I don’t know my exact body composition. From January ’09 to about June or July ’09 i gained about 15 lbs. I increased my protien intake quite a bit during some of this time and just ate more in general. I have the type of metabolism where I never gain weight from eating alone. There is a noticeable difference in my chest, legs, and arms. I worked out 1 or 2 days a week, sometimes missing a week or maybe longer. Used free weights at home and mostly Cybex machines at the gym. Usually used a full range or close to full range of motion, did some partials and statics. Used a smooth rep cadence, basically controlling the weight. As far as sets go i would 1 or 2 close to failure. I do need to keep better track of resistance and reps.
I felt like I should add this to my earlier post here. When I was going into my freshman year of high school my training frequency was much higher. I’m now 33. I lifted almost everyday of my summer vacation. I didn’t train much to failure or too much into the discomfort zone. When I came back to school my sophomore year alot of people noticed a difference without me saying anything. I don’t remember for sure how much weight I gained. I’m aware that I probably had alot more testosterone flowing through my body back then but when I stopped training I went back to being skinnier and people again would ask if I ate or if I was sick. I didn’t post this to say anything against HIT. I simply wanted to share more of what I have experienced on my own.
I am 26 years old and suffer from whole-body osteoarthritis, aka degenerative joint disease. This came about as a result of my previous obsession with running and other irrational forms of physical training. I was aware of the HIT philosophy before this happened and had used it successfully for brief periods but never committed to strength training as a way of life vs. running as a way of life. I am now permanently debilitated and my one precious existence on this earth is ruined because of this stupid shit. Fuck aerobics, fuck Cooper, fuck the exercise physiologists, and fuck everybody who apologizes for “cardio.” Arthur Jones is a great man and everyone who talks shit can burn in hell where they belong. I am not trolling or fucking around.
Respect to Anthony Johnson, you are a good man.
I have to say I am a bit perplexed by how adamant Mr. Johnson is in his disapproval of systems like p90x when he admits he knows very little about them. For the most part, p90x uses body weight and emphasizes low impact exercises and modification of workouts to fit the needs of the user. Watching an infomercial doesn’t make you an expert on the program, and being a cult-like advocate of a program like Body by Science further erodes your credibility.
I’ve tried super slow, HIT among others, but unfortunately I am an avid athlete…meaning I like to get out and do things with my body. Rock climbing, triathlon, trail running, mountain biking, skydiving, snowboarding, cross-country skiing etc. all require aerobic/anaerobic fitness and strength and flexibility. In other words, real fitness. Body by Science and its brethren push the use of machines (useless for real fitness) and methods that provide little benefit in the real world…that is if you want to actually use your body for recreational sports, not sit on a boat or at the beach.
So, I guess my question is: do you do any “real” activity, and have you found that Body by Science and the like have helped you? If so, provide some proof…maybe I’ll rethink its usefulness.
(BTW, I am a USATriathlon coach with extensive experience with diet and exercise…not just some Johnny-come-lately, so I look forward to any scientific proof you can provide). Regards.
Sorry, Anthony (I posted the above comments)…two points I also would like a comment on are:
1. exercise and mental health AND
2. exercise and mental acuity
If you’re asking people to rest for a week, essentially, does that mean I can’t get out and ride my bike for a whole week? What’s the point of having fitness if you can’t use it? To me fitness is not the ends, but a means TO an ends.
This is not meant to be antagonistic, just like to get the thoughts of others…may come through as aggressive b/c inflection is not possible in type. Regards.
Hi everyone,
I really appreciated Mark’s post on November 10th, 2009 and more specifically in regards to the overtraining factor from p90x. Couple of comments… simply said –> listen to your body. I started the program last year and 70 days in without missing a workout I got sick… now I don’t usually get sick, but it felt like it was from overtraining… Skip ahead… I started the program again and 45 days in I got sick again… this time I really feel it was from overtraining…Variables are important and FYI my diet is and was consitently flawless; enriched with f&v’s (vit’s and carbs) and calculated protein’s, carbs and fat. No supplements nothing from p90x’s program all whole food; I’m talking 5-6 meals/day and packed lunches. I’ve been made fun of for having a cooked sweet potato in my pocket as a snack at a movie theatre because it was 3 hours long and right in the middle of it was when I was supposed to eat – I didn’t want to miss a meal. I use a vitamix blender great blender so I can blend and drink most of all my foods including tuna with spinach, olive oil etc. you get the idea. In addition to food and I can say sleep varied, but for the most part pretty solid. Stress likely no more then avg. from work. I’m 30 and similiar to Dave above I feel I am very active and play a wide variety of sports and individal activites on top of p90x, but really only a couple of extra times/week hockey or squash or biking on top of the program. I am very disciplined and have never had an issue following programs and diets to a t – the wife thinks I am a robot, the program but it has been like this for 10 years and I have learned a lot about what I can and can’t handle… ha apparently except when I try a new program (p90x)!!!. Oh yah and I was fit before I started at 8% body fat, 6,2 (height little hard on joints), 214 pounds (don’t want to go below 8 as I don’t think it is healthy) Okay enough enough of that – just trying to give you an understanding about my experience and how it impacted me. I chalk my experience with p90x as a failure in the beginning primarily because I did forget the golden rule that I have learned over many years and I will say it again – listen to your body. I am now 40 days in to another session (3rd attempt) of p90x and I am paying particular attention to my energy levels from day to day. If I am tired then I won’t workout; if the exercise is causing any strain then I either don’t go as deep or I skip it. The ab exercies every secnd day; I don’t think so… my hip flexors in the first two times were typically tired and you get some abs from yoga as well so don’t do them every second day or do less. To summarize this my goal is to understand how the program works for me and along Anthony’s points (of success through shorter workouts)I find myself cutting down the workout time from the program primarily because I don’t do all the exercises i.e. 300 chinups in one session and then another x amount thhee days later… that is burnout city. I am understanding more about how I can use it to work for my body and I acutally ended up buying a different dvd for yoga because I don’t think he did a good job of his. In addition, I don’t repeat the plyo exercies twice now… just go through them once… I could go on and on here, but I think I have made my point. There are good exercies in the program and it is a tool and like all tools you need to know how to use them… I think Anthony makes a good point that the avg. person does not know enough about there body and jumps into this thing just as Mark did and as I did as a pretty experienced guy and is going to wind up overtrained or damaged knees, etc. It is out of the box and lacks a good solid preface. You could go to a personal trainer and they will give you a program, but even then there will be times you should skip a workout or be careful of doing an extra exercise. So what are we talking about… if you follow the program the whole way through without missing a day and going hard then in my opinion you will burn out (unless your on roids)and I agree with Anthony you will increase your odds of having issues with jiont aches etc. later in life, which in my opinion does make a poor program!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However the program does have some great exercises and using my own body weight appeals to me as I grew up a little in the (squat a lot era and I did, but not without putting unecessary damage on the joints). In addition, it has helped me to remember to have more focus on my core and many other things. I know there are some gimmicky type exercizes and Tony was likly one of the worst guys they could have picked for it, but it is hard to get it all in $120. I laughed on the child mind, but adult body…poor Tony; he is a pretty creepy dude, but a whole different post.
When I recommend it to friends and yes I do recommend it to them… I spend a considerable amount of time explaining NOT to follow it dot to dot, listen to your body, cut the time down of each video almost by half in some cases and use it as a tool to show you different exercises and get you going.
I’m going to look into this body science stuff… any more comments on it? Trouble is I like the working out as I have found it to be a good outlet; and like Dave I like to do exercises that will help me outside the gym. It is more about health then muscle
Brad
I thought I’d seen some big internet paragraphs before, but that takes the
cakeCongrats!
I bought Body by Science today. Reading now.
Will do first workout tomorrow.
BBS is one of my favorites… read it well, it’s an excellent book! The good doc should also be in Orlando this July for T21C!
And yes, I am long winded like few others. A gift and a curse.
Dear Mr. Dream ( I forgot what your real name was)
Greetings. I’m very sorry – I’m pretty abrasive as well. Certainly, by calling Mr. Horton immature for his age, I can assume that you mature then? If that is called into attention and briefly so be legitimate to your claims about the P90X programs – then so be it – it matters not as to how this discussion goes along. Since you’re mature, then perhaps you can see this with an open mind but above all, a open heart. I ask thee, Mr. Dream:
1. How is Mr. Horton immature where he has in fact, proved that his programs by his claim and by the reviews of many websites and even from my countrymen (the Filipino)?. The results will clearly speak for itself – it works. I seem to see a lot from Drew Baye and Body by Science. I would like to ask, do you have any other sources as to base your claims about strength training? I have Alwyn Cosgrove, Lou Schuler, Joel Marion, Dr. John Berardi, Adam Campbell, Nate Green, Ross Enamait, Pavel Tsatsouline, Craig Ballantyne, Dan John, Mike Mahler, Steven Maxwell, Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, Sifu Luk Chun Bond, Ori Hofmekler, Leo Galland and Stephen Lanzalotta (to name a few as proof if ever there is going to be a debate on strength training. How much do you have – studies alone and proponents alone – offer little proof as to the actual proof you see from people benefiting from P90X. Though if debate is concerned, then so be it – I’m willing to do it. By the way, I am not qualified in anyway. You beat me there and I don’t have any qualifications – I just have myself and it’s more than enough. Once again, do you wish to deny the results people receive from P90X?
2. What makes you think that what has been proven in theory and application is the universal and safe way towards the improvement of a life? If our ancestor’s made the habits but those were dangerous, then how so would modern science be safer than that? I agree with the point you make by (once again, seemingly always quoting Mr. Baye – it’s a guy right?) stating that intense, brief and infrequent exercise works best. True enough, yes it does but so do many other protocols. The Tabata Protocol, Controlled Fatigue Training, P90X. It’s not a question of theory, it’s a question of user responsibility. Even one who does safe strength training will always suffer from injury once ‘mindfulness’ is eliminated from the physical activity (note, I did not mention exercise). Bottomline, everyone is still prone to injury, regardless of the program or protocol – because it is stupid, very stupid to rely too much on straight set line in a very un-straight world. Mr. Horton was right – it’s like criticizing air and water. There is no need, my friend. The P90X plan also encourages a fit test and at the same time, cautions of the extreme nature of exercise. One should not question too much of the program as Lou Schuler, in his New Rules of Lifting, would say, because the program does what it was made to do. P90X is meant to improve agility, muscle development, strength, power and good nutritional habits. That’s only one third of the equation. The others are environment and the users themselves. Let’s face it, A program is a program mean to help or injure. Who decides ultimately in handling it and pushing through it? The person or persons will utimately be in charge of it. Humans have always lived on habits, and they will always adapt according to them, which human do you want to be? that is the question. You say that, you encourage lifting. I encourage it very much. But, to say that exercise is something to be worked at is a bit cruel and abrasive (motherfucka – really i didn’t meant you.) If you’re skeptical, tell that to the Japanese and Chinese who do physical activity and exercise (synonymous, my friend) everyday and by the way, most do it not briefly, not intense and more frequently than ever before. Yet, they seem to be long life people. Yes, diet will always be key, but has exercise/physical activity really influenced them to be that way, of course. In the same way lifting does it well, tai chi and walking are universal as well. By the way, I have Chinese health studies as well. They seem to be having good things to say. I am not being racist – i’m merely being open as to the current situation there and here – but what does your American studies have? Cancer patients being cured by omega-3′s? next cured by lifting weights? or by walking? running? new diet books that seem to be proving how wrong America is right now instead of offering a better solution. Life is meant to be enjoyed but people in America seems to be obssessive about health and fitness instead of thinking of a greater life of happiness, faith and wisdom. Tsk Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk………….t…..sk.
I seem to notice I don’t have any questions at all (silly me.). It’s just funny many people take so much sides whenever there is a strong force trying to persuade them (be it Tony Horton or Mr. Dream(seriously you like being called like that? – I think it’s better they call you Mr.Mature.) Frankly, Dream (if that’s really what you are called.) you tend to be very abrasive, which means you are a bit immature at it. For such a great mind and frame, you speak so freely your words as if they would matter, try to be more mature about this and think it over, grasshopper.
I’m free for debates (as if there is so much to debate about – such a waste of living.) at my email, jyabil_elemento@yahoo.com. See you there if you have questions, D-r-E-a-M.
“Inside every older person is a younger person asking what the hell happened” – Cora Harvey Armstrong.
Dream, this is another great example of a ‘fad exercise program’ we were discussing earlier. I think you’ll agree they are lame and completely financial biased!
P90x is a subpar way to get an average to below average workout, for a ridiculous fee.
We are ALL better off with intense anaerobic strength-training.
JEFF
Dream, this p90x is another perfect example of a ‘fad exercise program’ we were discussing earlier. I think you’ll agree these are completely lame and financial biased!
Basically, p90x is a subpar way to get an average to below average workout for a ridiculous fee.
We are ALL much better off with intense anaerobic strength-training.
JEFF
I think we finally agree on something =)
I don’t know how you could call P90X a great exercise program to begin with. It classifies itself an “in home boot camp.” Boot camps aren’t meant to be long term, or sustainable. If you’re going to do it, it would be like a one time thing.
Dear Community ( I think you all agree with Mr. Dream, so community is best for this – I believe so.)
Pretty much P90X is a great exercise program, always has and forever will be. Pretty much, anaerobic training will always be one of the finest approaches to overall fitness, always has and forever will be. See, the problem with this is that, it’s really hard to define a proper exercise program, if one does not know what exercise is. First of all, ‘exercise’ has, will and always be ARBITRARY ( it depends on the context of which people defined it to be.) Therefore, exercise/physical activity/exertion are all but synonymous with each other. So, if by this blog, exercise is defined as something that is sustainable, people of other ‘sane’ (dream seems to like this word a lot) communities will see exercise as a means of fun and leisure (by this definition, no work is given to exercise). Seeing this to be so, ‘Proper Exercise’ is arbitrary as well. With this justification, P90X is a wonderful exercise program because it does what it does, deliver results that turn the average to above average. What happens when the results are oxidative stress, tissue damage and burnout? I don’t know (sarcasm up ahead), you tell me, the last time I know of anaerobic strength training and P90X was that they were words described as ‘programs for exercise’ and not containing any life force at all and were meant to be used by a person. So the person committing to ANY EXERCISE PROGRAM is simply, simply responsible (hence the fit tests, the monitoring and the like) for his/her well-being. It’s not the program itself (it does what it does) but how you use it. Once again, Mr. Horton WAS RIGHT and DREAM WAS RIGHT AS WELL. They both work. To say, that one is more sustainable than the other is somewhat a misnomer as Strength Training done incorrectly is fatal and P90X done incorrectly and without proper monitoring is fatal as well. I’m not basing this on any scientific research or articles since most of you don’t even address the topics with articles or sound research (aside from Dream and a few of those) but merely from opinions. So, i’ll just pay respect and not use any unless it’s needed.
TRIVIA: Did you know that intense anaerobic strength training increases risk of greater inflammation in the body that left unattended causes obesity by contributing of leptin resistance?
(DX Background Music Playing)
@Kyle Matthew
I think Mark Sisson has a very good blog post on P90X.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/p90x-and-crossfit/
He’s also a friend of Tony Horton’s and I think he created the P90X shakes as well. My older brother also does P90X, and there’s no doubt I would consider him in good shape. But at the end of the day, if you can do exercise that will take up less of your time, and get you just as good, if not better results, then why would you do P90X again?
I have no idea where you got your “TRIVIA” from, but that’s the first, and probably the last time I’ll ever hear that.
“TRIVIA: Did you know that intense anaerobic strength training increases risk of greater inflammation in the body that left unattended causes obesity by contributing of leptin resistance? ”
Dude, you just shot down all of your credibility right here. PROPER STRENGTH TRAINING DOES NOT CAUSE OBESITY. That’s probably the most ludicrous statement I’ve read on this entire blog. In fact, you have it completely backwards. Intense strength training actually helps to modulate leptin-hormone levels.
Go home dude. It’s OK though, not everyone can be a stud. ( =
Dear Jeff (that’s your name I believe)
Credibility is what it is. Certainly, I’ve left home hours ago and just came here to check. Seems though you replied. Thanks. Yup, it does cause inflammation and that it promotes to obesity. No doubt about it. Like you said yourself, JEFF, not everyone can be a stud. I’m a human being. True enough, you may be a stud then (if that is what you’re implying). It’s cool that you’d like to think of yourself as an animal and probably to feel good about yourself you’d like to think of yourself as a horse ( I wonder why – I’m just saying.) Anyway, listen DUDE (you seem to be fond of the word.) It does cause inflammation and increases obesity. It increases the risk of obesity because of leptin hormone decreased due to inflammation. But, you see, I can go home and I can just say, “This guy is correct. I know he is (yes, JEFF i’m referring to you). I just WISHED THOUGH HE’D HAVE SOURCES TO PROVE IT.” I was thinking about that. But, seems though you don’t have proof. Like I said, I don’t have credibility. I don’t have a P.H.D or an M.D in my account, but I do have information and sources. I’m honest enough to say that i am not qualified to say these things, but I do have proof. Do you Mr. Stud? (Yes, JEFF I’m referring to you). I’d like to see proof as to my having it completely backwards. I don’t want to be mean and all, JEFF, but it’s so pathetic that I can’t be a stud like some people. I don’t want to be. I’m a rational human being with a brain. I don’t know about you though. Basically, my friend, just provide proof so that you can go home. You don’t belong here as much as anybody saying that if you claim but you don’t even have proof. Unless you show me proof, I won’t even lift a finger. I don’t want others to give you proof, do it yourself and be man. I’m just saying man. I agree with you saying that proper strength training does NOT CAUSE OBESITY. It does, however, increase the risk of obesity – and yes, the focus is on RISK and not DIRECT CAUSE. Try to read before you comment, you’re going to lose your credibility for that, dude (again, you seem to like this word.) and your ‘studly’ powers. I’m always here, stud.
It’s OK though, not everyone can be a decent human being.
Dear JEFF,
Cool. You replied. JEFF, I am most definitely not a stud. I am fat, I have bad skin and girls don’t dig me. But, I guess, the true meaning of a stud is being a bred farm animal. Yup, i’m not that too. Why though? Are you a stud? Just teasing man (wonder if it’s true – you, JEFF, getting women everyday (hot ones at that) and being all so cool and going to a farm where the sun don’t shine and making love with those women and having a horse in the mix to share it’s…you get the idea – i’m just teasing man.) I’m just a human being, nowhere do I want to be called a stud – the wondrous definition of getting all the ladies is simply a jargon, if you know what ‘jargon’ means that is.
Oh yeah, I mentioned before that I don’t claim to have credibility, i’m nowhere qualified man – please read. But, I do have information and I do have sources. I’m not defending my credibility. Heck, you probably have more credibility than me. I’m here to comment on what I think is right and I can back it up with sources and information. Though, I can’t really do that if you just keep giving these biased opinions about what YOU KNOW in terms of strength training and it’s effect on obesity. My friend, I accept those opinions with just about everybody but please provide sources (you’re a stud right?) and i’ll counter with mine because you seem so desperate for attention. Okay? can you understand that, Mr. Stud? Anyway, that’s all there is to it, my friend. So, yes, go home dude (you seem to like this word.) And, I said, RISK OF CAUSING OBESITY. NOT A DIRECT CAUSE. My friend, please read, okay? so it’s easier to reply to you. You’re stating a claim that is very ludicrous as well. And yes, the studies my friend. The studies and research would really help. If you don’t provide yourself, JEFF, who knows man, you might lose your ‘studliness’ as well. You wouldn’t want that to happen don’t you? (I assume you have a 10-inch python that women want to die for, but please man, we need some proof of your claim – that’s all i’m asking. If you do have that 10-inch python, man am I jealous. But seriously, some proof, JEFF.) Peace up.
It’s OKAY though, not everyone can be a human being like me. Perhaps they’d rather be studs. T.T. I wish I was a stud. mwaaa..T.T
Dear Jeff,
I know man. I’m not a stud. You didn’t have to tell it to the whole world! I’ve got a 3-inch hamster here and girls I like don’t even like me! Damn! Seriously stop spreading it to the whole world! Sshshsshh. I’m just a regular human being and not a stud like you. ( you must be happy with all those farm animals.)
Anyway, JEFF, please provide proof next time. It ruins the ‘studliness’ in you if you don’t have proof and call something ludicrous, especially when you can’t back it up. It’s like having a 10-inch piece of meat without any fat inside it – it just doesn’t taste good. I don’t want you to lose your ‘studliness’ man cause i’m gay (maybe i’m not) but I just want to see proof if ever you’re trying to prove a claim here. Dream has such a nice blog, I’d only wish that some people (No, I WASN’T TALKING ABOUT YOU.) had some brains to put some proof in their claims – so as not to lose the ‘stud’ factor. It’s OKAY THOUGH, at least you got a 10-inch p…………….ython there (I assume – damn, I must be gay!) >.< and it's OK though, not everyone can be 'studs' like you or a regular human being like me – all the people here are either fitness experts, nutritionists, cavemen from the past, studs with very big..uh, standards, and rational leaders and elitists. Either way, man, go home too. It's not so good staying up light, your mother might be angry.
(DX Background Music Playing with 'Jeff' cooking up a hotdog with so much amore (love) – hihihi..he sure loves them weeners, he's a stud.)
Kyle, I’m really worried for you as you seem a little psychotic. Honestly, I’m afraid you might hurt yourslef or your loved ones.
Please know you are not alone out there and there are people who would be willing to help. In the meantime, watch some of the video content on The 21 Convention for advice and support. Take care
—JEFF
Dear JEFF,
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
JEFF, I’m really worried for you as you seem to be pretty…I don’t know. (I really don’t like to be mean), pretty stupid. If you’ve known about sarcasm, acting and a little bit of sophomoric (bet you can’t even understand that word) antics, then you’d know that I love making conflict out of anything untellectual as this blog. Really man, the better, safer and finer approach to fitness will always, always depend on the individual, JEFF. We could do a Turkish Get-up and you’d do the prescribed approach of 3 days a week (each day separated by rest) and you’d lift for about 6 reps with a fairly heavy weight and I’d do Turkish Get-up with only 3 reps with a fairly heavyweight everyday, alternating between 3 reps on one day, and other repetitions ranges on other days – and I’d still knock your socks off or otherwise, you could knock my balls off. Who knows. Most of the results do not come from the programs, but from the person doing it. I really don’t want to be mean, JEFF. I made a point of you providing proof as to how I was wrong, but you don’t seem to have any. It’s nothing personal man, it’s just that stupid people like you are hard to find these days. You are stud man, no problem with that – but we still need some brains in this world. So do us a favor by researching well before you say anything that will make you even more stupid than you are now.
P.S: My family loves me, my teachers love me, the world hates me but I learn to love them. I’m proud to say that I’ve hurt them at times and they have hurt me, but there was always a mutual understanding.Hmm. That seems to be a good standard for a human being. I’m still giving my best in maintaining and improving health and it will always be that way. Yup, I’m a psychopath – because a live worth living (not merely existing) is done by doing things out of the ordinary.
JEFF, I’m really afraid that your stupidity might hurt people you love, women you’ve slept with, guys you’ve jerked at, and yourself as well. I really am afraid of that too. So please read a book and start learning, JEFF. You’re not the only one. Don’t worry about that, stud. You might find “Sweatin With the Oldies” helpful in giving your brain some oxygen – who knows, free radicals ‘might’ cause you to be normal again. Oh wait, you don’t have research on that as well right? Figures. Take care (I’ll not add anything, I’ve emasculated you enough.)
I have to admit that I’m an old man of 47. I have been up the mountain professionally and personally, had some good times and bad. I was looking at this thread and hoping that you would archive it and reread it in 20 years. It would be interesting to know if you can still be so absolute in your beliefs then. Once, we were all like you, full of juice and our own brilliance. Then, we grow up and the really smart people learn that the world isn’t so black and white.
Good reading and congratulations on learning from that first bad P90X thread.
I did P90X Lean program, I followed the meal program in my way but I did it, Im in my last week of the 3 months and nothing happens to my body, I feel so frustrated for all the time working and waiting for results, what is worst I gain 3 pounds and trust me is not in muscle. I was looking for answers about P90X and I found this place, it was interesting to read but kind of boring with all the terminology (sorry my ignorance). So at the end I want to know what should I do to lose weight, improve my stomach and build a nice arms (I know almost everything). Cardio 6 day a week, how many day working on arms and abs. Can you tell me a very good video, that really works.
Thanks for the information
http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/09/07/proper-exercise-and-nutrition/
Way too many “believers” on this site. I think getting active and mixing up your workouts is the name of the game. Those of you who subscribe to a one size fits all diet and exercise plan have very little, if any, understanding of the differences in human beings. We’re all different and all require different types and amounts of exercise and food.
Diet and exercise should keep us physically and mentally fit. I know that if I did HIT once a week and kept to the diet prescribed here and by paleophiles I would be out of shape and feel like crap. I mix up strength and aerobic training, eat enough carbs to keep me energized. I steer clear of anything processed, saturated, high in nitrates, sodium, or sugar.
Anyway, to argue that works for me will work for you is simply ludicrous…that goes for everything. The bottom line is you have to be aware of what’s going on in YOUR life and quit looking for some convention or self-described guru to give you the golden ticket. Wake up and tune in and you’ll figure it out.
I have and have used P90X, I must say that the only thing it’s good for is losing a little weight and slight definition. I barely bulked, I don’t feel too much different and if I did it was usually from the constant intake of various vitamins and protein shakes that my body wasn’t use to. I started reading BBS last night and dropped P90X on it’s cranium, the overwhelming scientific and physiological evidence was overwhelming to the point that I couldn’t believe that I had surpassed said facts. I thank you for your post, Dream because had it not been for you, I wouldn’t have found BBS.
Can anyone explain to me why so many on here tout the paleo lifestyle and argue about what our bodies are made to do and then rave about BBS, which is founded on 1 workout per week, super slow, and machines over free weights? What caveman had a Nautilus system in his basement.
Fitness is strength, endurance, flexibility. BBS is for the lazy looking for a quick fix and is akin to the hucksters selling snake oil that will cure all ills.
Anyway…someone please explain the many contradictions on this site. (ie., financial motives…isn’t Mr. Johnson financially motivated? Aren’t most people going to a gym where they pay money to workout instead of simply using body weight, a pull up bar and free weights and some running shoes? And, those gyms are motivated by making money. As mentioned, what does super slow/BBS have to do with the paleo lifestyle? Isn’t fitness supposed to allow you to use your body? I would challenge anyone on this site who is BBS disciple to ride, run, or ski with me for 30 minutes…not a chance you’d make it.)
I encourage all the readers out there to get outside, get out of the gym and enjoy the process of becoming and being fit. Enjoy the diversity in food, exercise, and life….it is a journey after all and if you’re following the one size fits all answers on this site you’ll be cheating yourself of the variety that makes life interesting. I for one hope that most of the readers realize that most of the advice on here falls under the category of “youthful ignorance” and is taken as one piece of the puzzle and not a complete answer to any of life’s many questions.
1. Improvements can be made over what over ancestors had access to.
2. You would do well to study capitalism, win/win outlooks on life, positivity, and optimism.
3. Not that it’s relevant to proper exercise, but I would bet many readers on here have the muscle mass to “keep up” or perhaps even leave you in the dust with the recreational/competitive activities you mentioned with only a few weeks to adapt to the movements (excluding skill required for various activities).
I know for a fact Patrick Diver of Greyhound Fitness would leave you eating rubber on a bike =).
I hope you stay on TDL, open up a bit to the dream kool-aid, and stop judging others on their age.
I know capitalism, I am a capitalist. I always push for win/win in business, but I’m just wondering how you can say that folks like Tony Horton are out for financial gain but then tout super slow which needs equipment to perform and often an gym to perform it in…isn’t their end goal capitalism?…that’s all. The point I’m trying to make is that people on this site should open their minds…I’m all for whatever works for you. If it is BBS and a meat centered diet, that’s great. My point is that to encourage people to subscribe to one small corner of the fitness world is limiting people’s experiences in life…that is pretty sad, if you ask me.
I’m sorry to inform you that simply having muscle mass will not give you endurance…If Mr. Diver spends time on a bike and is nimble enough to corner off camber, then he may well beat me…but not if he’s working out once a week on a super slow circuit…then, sorry to say, my niece could take him down…I know facts get left by the wayside on this blog, at times, but facts are facts.
Finally, I’m not judging on age, I’m simply thinking back to myself at your age and remembering how everything I learned and everything that worked for me then MUST have been the Holy Grail. With the benefit of hindsight I (and you will, too, trust me) look back and think how short sighted I was. It wasn’t a waste, because it worked for me, but it was awfully closed minded of me.
So, I encourage you to open your mind to the possibility that many things work for many people and if those things get them fit, enjoying life, successful, and happy, why do have to rain on their parade and put them down? That’s the youthful ignorance I was referring to…that’s all. Chill my young brother, you have a long life and will undoubtedly change your mind many times. You may even become a vegetarian marathon runner by the time you hang it up. You never know what’s around the corner and that, my friend, is the beauty of life.
This post was written long ago and does not reflect all of my current thoughts, although I will say that proper, intense strength training still is and always will be the only form of proper exercise. Everything else is recreational activity, competitive activity, some other form of random physical activity, or out right nonsense.
Facts do not get knowingly left by the wayside on this blog, nice snide remark though.
As for my age, you are preaching to the wrong crowd. Tony Horton is an idiot when it comes to exercise. It makes no difference whether I’m 12, 21, or 87 saying that. It doesn’t even matter if I state it or not, because it won’t change the fact that Tony doesn’t know the first thing about exercise. Pretty good at selling false hope though, I’ll give him that.
As for opening my mind, I would reflect that back at you and encourage you to do the same, just be careful to make sure your brains don’t start spilling out onto the floor.
Dream kool aid comin right up! =)
REVISION: Physical Exercise is a form of Strength Training. (8
Where to begin? I’m baffled at how someone who knows so little is so certain that he is right.
First of all, your definition of exercise is certainly not my definition of exercise. So, to claim that you’re open-minded while adamantly denying any opinion that runs counter to yours is, to say the least, absurd. You know neither the definition of open-minded or exercise.
I’ve seen nothing on any of your posts to prove to me that you have any real knowledge about nutrition, exercise, or life…so what it boils down to is the ramblings of an automaton who thinks that what has worked for him must be the gospel. Again, absurd.
That is the definition of myopic thinking and is dangerous in large doses. And, you dole it out in large doses on this site. Luckily, I have the benefit of understanding my own body and knowing that real fitness comes from the recovery from different forms of stress. Thankfully I don’t fall victim to someone else telling me what is and isn’t appropriate for me. But, I do think that you have convinced some people that your lazy man’s route to fitness is dangerous, which is one reason I keep posting (and it’s fun to toy with you).
But also it’s that the posts on this site continue to amaze me, which is another reason I keep coming back I guess…to see if you’ve come to your senses. I guess I also keep posting replies because the opinions you present and the certainty with which you present them has actually convinced some readers that you are right and it seems that someone needs to get them to open their eyes and minds. I mean, if I were gullible I’d love to believe that one workout a week and a carnivorous diet would get me in shape.
Thankfully I’m open-minded and self-aware enough to know that this is hokum, at least for the vast majority of us.
The irony here is that while you are bashing Tony Horton and his ilk, you are at the same time trying to build your own clan of followers so that you can preach your own brand of one-size-fits-all fitness. You know, wisely, that if you can discredit Tony Horton, you can convert them to your own way of thinking and probably, eventually, bilk them for cash. You even openly use the phrase “dream kool-aid”…if that doesn’t dissuade your readers, it should…it’s link Sarah Palin’s wink, telling you I’m messing with you and your helping me pull it off…it’s only embarrassing after you realize you’ve been made to look like a schmuck.
All that said, I do believe that some people benefit from the things you preach, and yeah, it is preaching. And, I believe you’re one who has benefited…though I don’t believe anyone will reach their full potential with your tactics. I just hope that people don’t believe that the improvement they get means they are fit…if they do, they need to take a hard look in the proverbial mirror.
I agree totally with JaYOST7…dogmatic beliefs are always counterproductive.
Sigh… a non believer. Off with your head!
=)
No seriously, I am going to roll over laughing with you (not at) when you keep reading this site, do your own research, experiment on your own, and come to the exact same or very similar conclusions.
Please don’t compare me to Sarah Palin ever again. That woman was born stupid, not ignorant, and it’s never changing, and as such it’s a bit insulting in a not so funny way.
I truly believe that someday you’ll get it, but apparently not any day soon. I only have pity for your readers…who you degrade by referring to those not with you as “non-believers” (implying that your readers are believers and that you are some kind of prophet), and your own beliefs as “kool-aid”. These references alone show your ignorance. If you knew better you’d understand that this insults your readers by insinuating they are following you and degrades your credibility by intimating that your ideas are “kool-aid”, which someone as educated as you should know is fairly derisive to your audience. For future reference, anyone looking to be taken seriously would not refer to their own “knowledge” as kool-aid…you should Google Jonestown and see what you find.
Anyway, I hope you laugh at me, not with me. I’d hate to think that we have anything in common. As someone who understands true fitness and nutrition I’d rather not be lumped in with the kool-aid drinkers on this site (that’s how it should be used).
I’ve read a lot of this site, I’ve done years worth of research (even did super slow for a period of time, with no results) and have been experimenting for two decades. The thing I know (and this is for me personally, not for everyone) is that variety keeps me fit. A plant based diet has kept me healthy. An open-mind has kept me sane.
The point you’ve missed over and over again is that it is crazy and dangerous to believe that everyone should subscribe to one universal diet and exercise plan. That is just so incredibly narrow minded it makes my mind boggle. The fact that you cling to it as though it is indisputable is nearly pathological.
With that said, maybe you’re more Jim Jones than fitness guru. Once you google Jonestown you’ll get the reference.
Apparently my sense of humor doesn’t seep through the internet as I once thought it did, at least not for you it doesn’t. Which leaves me almost speechless. I mean, you literally just took the time to critique and analyze my use of the words “non believer” and “kool-aid”, while simultaneously suggesting I Google *Jonestown*, calling my actions ignorant, and mildly praising my degree of education.
What!?
In any case, this is my blog, and I will speak to my liking – and let my actions be the judge of my character. If you don’t like any of this, feel free to leave as no one is forcing you to stay here.
Funny you mention super slow, something I’ve technically never performed. What makes you bring that up? My guess is the typical bias against Super Slow and it’s accompanying association with High Intensity Training. This is no different than slamming Dr. Atkins when first hearing about a low carb paleo diet. Cheap shot at best, at worst, you’re the one at a loss since “Super Slow” made a lot of advances in the realm of safety.
In any case I’m glad to hear you’ve experimented on yourself for as long as I’ve been alive – this doesn’t make whatever you do to workout safe, efficient, or even effective however – nor does it make me wrong, it’s just you experimenting on yourself. For all you know, I am entirely and 100% correct in my ideas – has this thought crossed your mind? For someone that continually praises being “open minded”, you certainly aren’t walking your talk if you havent given this serious consideration as of yet.
As for variety, I think what you are referring to is more aptly called “novelty”, that is, “progress” through continually changing movements. While perhaps more interesting over the long haul, this in no way “keeps you fit” in and of itself – it just the illusion and feeling of progress as your body adapts to different movements that require different motor skills.
While I’m glad to hear you’ve lived a long healthy life, a plant based diet is not optimal for humans. In all seriousness, your good health could not only be irrelevant to your diet, but in spite of it – the same way some people live their entire lives with extraordinary muscle mass and low body fat, yet never pick up a weight, and eat nothing but junk.
It is not crazy and dangerous to “believe” there is a universal set of principals for humans to follow with regards to exercise and nutrition – it only seems that way to you because you have little to no real world understanding of the subjects at present. If anything, it is the most rational, reasonable idea this field has ever seen – that while specifics differ from individual to individual, all human beings are subject and respond to the same core principals.
Hold your mind still, stop it from “boggling”, and try learning something, because for all you know, I’m right.
Make a stupid comment like that last one again and I’m banning you from this site.
Dave this was an AMAZING post! Thanks for having the balls to STAND-UP.
Dream: Saying strength training IS exercise is like saying bananas ARE Nutrition. DOGMATIC BELIEFS ARE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE!
WITH THAT SAID, strength training is likely the BEST form of exercise for physical growth and development. Mental, emotional, and spiritual strength, are just as beneficial however.
You need to re-read what James wrote in his recent comment. As for strength training, by my standards, it is exercise. Other activities have exercise “effects”, but this doesn’t make them exercise.
One of the things I continue to find interesting from some commentors on this blog is how they tell Dream to ‘open your mind.’ In the generally accepted sense of the concept I would say Dream is one of the most open minded guys I have been fortunate to encounter. Everyone else seems to ignore the fact that he’s tried many of these other approaches to either exercise, nutrition or whatever other topic. But if we are to consider what open mindedness really entails then I would say that actually Dream is not open minded, but instead active minded. I’d encourage you to read this very short exert from Ayn Rand http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/open_mind_and_closed_mind.html
Yes James, Dream is an open minded/active minded individual on certain topics. HOWEVER, he is VERY biased on others (including fitness & nutrition).
Thefact of the matter is, WE ALL KNOW NOTHING on these select two topics, as there is still sooo much to uncover. Cheers,
I tend to become ‘biased’ when I realize I am right beyond the shadow of a doubt. Examples
Freedom works.
Collectivism is both powerful and extremely dangerous.
Humans are meant to eat mostly animals.
True exercise is properly conducted strength training (with safety first).
While learning is a never ending process, and there is much to learn about each of these truths, the core is never changing, not for me, or anyone else.
Well-said. I’m also @ the point where my fundamental beliefs on these topics are cemented. AND while I may word my teachings differently, the principles behind them, based on what you’ve wriiten here, are near-identical.
Your damn right Dream, you are far too ‘biased’ – ‘biased’ towards critical appraisal, responsible judgment and the reaching of firm convictions.
As I said in my other post, my beliefs are tentative as should everyone’s be due to no one being able to see what future research could possibly hold. But for present we can only go by the evidence we currently have and must form firm convictions based on such. This is exactly what you and all the other free thinkers out there do. Skepticism for its own sake leads to nothing. A rationality implies a critical skepticism not a perpetual skepticism. You can say you are right beyond a shadow of a doubt because in the context of our current knowledge you absolutely are. Any future evidence will require a reassessment of previous knowledge and either the abandonment of certain beliefs or the expansion of them to encompass new evidence. In the case of both exercise and nutrition the latter is to be more common.
@jaYOST7 – Would you or would you not agree that you have contradicted your previous statement regarding ‘dogmatic beliefs’ by saying the following-
“I’m also @ the point where my fundamental beliefs on these topics are cemented”
My understanding of this statement would imply that you follow a certain set of beliefs without question. Regardless of whether or not the beliefs you hold are shown to be true based upon objective evidence. To use the metaphor ‘cemented’ leads me to believe that you have decided a priori, and regardless of future evidence, that your beliefs are absolute truth.
Just wanted to clarify this?
Man, I’m getting far to philosophical in my old age (just turned 22 yesterday and my girlfriend is saying I’m acting like I’m 40, lol).
Nice happy birthday man. Turning 22 myself in barely a few weeks.
As always, well spoken, especially on the exercise and nutrition part. I would slightly disagree (unless I’m reading what you wrote incorrectly) though when it comes to “natural rights” in the sense of them being open to abandonment through future evidence (expansion I would not disagree with).
In this sense, I believe freedom and independence are both the natural (when unobstructed) and peak state of all men. To state one example, no amount of evidence or circumstance will ever convince me that a third party is in the right putting a gun to Doug McGuffs head in the emergency room and ordering him to perform any sort of medical work on an injured person.
Slavery is disgusting in all its forms, always has been, and always will be. That is the truth, and while our ideas and understanding surrounding that truth can advance, it will (should?) always be following the original track.
Good call on the oxymoron btw =)
Also saying “We all know nothing” is an oxymoron. If you know nothing how can you possibly know that you know nothing. You would have to be completely mindless in which case you couldn’t claim you knew nothing because your mind would be a blank.
I’ll shut up now
Thanks and hope you enjoy your Bday. Yea I should have been more explicit, I was only referring to the exercise and nutrition part. Or for that any other science.
In terms of morality, ethics and the philosophical principles by which man can and should live I’m in agreement 100%, unobstructed freedom is mans natural state. I finished reading Atlas Shrugged earlier in the year and was astounded. These were things I had always thought yet never had the balls to admit to. Perhaps I was scared of going against to collectivist machine. Now I do admit it and without any guilt. People just look shocked when I try to explain its content to them. How they spend almost each and every day of there lives having the product of their labour stolen from them. They can’t seem to understand that regardless of whether it is a man with a gun breaking into your home and taking your belongings, or a government taking your money that you have earned as the product of your own intellect, there is no difference. Stealing is stealing.
Same thing with your Doug McGuff example. I was brought up thinking the NHS was wonderful, but know I see how wrong I was. Don’t get me wrong I want treatment when I’m ill or injured, but I in no way expect it and am willing to pay for it. Besides I don’t plan on being a burden on anyone else for my health-care as I take personal responsibility for my personal health.
I’ll openly admit without any feeling of guilt that which John Galt states in the book.
“I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.”
Everything seems so fucked up in the world at the moment, there is so much wrong. That’s why seeing things like that Ron Paul documentary fill me with a bit of hope. Its nice to find out that there are people out there trying to change things to how they should be. It would be nice if there was more of an interest over here. There was a video of that MEP Daniel Hannan speaking to Gordon Brown last year which became a viral sensation. The thing I fear is that although access to the ideas is so much easier in today’s age, alot of the time it falls on deaf or unintelligible ears. The men of reason are the ones it needs to reach.
This sums up Ayn Rands philosophy, with which I find myself to agree on all aspects, nicely I think.
http://atlasshrugged.com/the-philosophy/
p.s. My girlfriend has been talking of getting a tattoo. I have been toying with the idea for a long time now and think I have decided upon what to have. I know I agree with the phrase quoted above with such conviction that I would have it tattooed. Reason is mans only tool of perceiving reality and I see Man as and end in himself.
‘Tattoos’ are trashy, especially on women.
(=
We ALL know nothing in the humble fact that Biology, Ecology, and The Animal Kingdom have yet to link to Nutrition. Then Dream spoke about core ideals, and shut me up, as even though these subjects will bring FAR greater knowledge of Health & Medicine i.e.
The abolishment of Celiac Disease, IBS, Crohn’s, etc.
He made me realize that no matter what I learn in my journey in regards to disease and medicine, my Nutritional Fundamentals, or my inner-beliefs on this subject, are complete:
1) Animals / Dairy
2) Fruits & Vegetables
3) Bread of the Man
WATER AND SUNSHINE!
And of course, BEING WELL-ROUNDED.
I like James and I think he has a lot to offer, his posts just BORE the hell out of me. THAT SAID, being ‘dogmatic’ would mean NOT trying Jeffrey Allen Yost’s Bread of the Man, which simply DOESN’T happen in LIVE home-made occurences where it is offered.
JEFF YOST OFFERS BREAD OF THE MAN, IDEAL FOR WOMAN, TOO!
Please forgive me but I am going to have to ask you to further clarify exactly what you meant by the previous comment. I didn’t really understand the point you were trying to make.
I’m sorry if my comments bore you. Based upon your replies I would have to assume you found them so boring you did not even take the time to finish reading or understanding them. Either that or you have failed to clearly express what you mean. I would encourage you to look further into the subject of epistemology and suggest you read Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology by Ayn Rand. It might help in the understanding of my previous comments.
“‘Tattoos’ are trashy, especially on women.”
Hmm, very mature and constructive (sarcasm here in case you weren’t aware). Without wanting to this to devolve into an unnecessary and pointless argument where a lot of meaningless and unintelligible words are used out of context, I would just like to point out that your comment has in no way contributed anything positive to this discussion and has only served to demonstrate an ignorance or avoidance of the topic and question posed to you.
Hey Anthony, thought your readers might enjoy this post. It’s a brief summary of what’s wrong with P90X and what people should do instead:
http://baye.com/p90x-insanity-and-similar-nonsense/
I will be spreading the post for sure, cheers!
Your point about VO2 Max Training was more accurate than you might realize. VO2 Max is not a predictor of athletic performance, and most studies show it isn’t possible or necessary to try and change your VO2 Max, since it isn’t important. Basically, being stronger makes a difference in performance and health – not having a higher VO2 Max. Well said Anthony,
-Armi