Edited, but still a bit raw, thoughts from the core on College, Life, Work, and more.
On College
For those who aren’t aware, I am currently a student at the University of Central Florida- one of the largest universities in the nation.
I’m in my 4th year now, and (beginning) to approach the end of school. If I were to follow my course schedule I would end this spring semester with only a handful of classes left to take before earning a bachelors degree in interdisciplinary studies (a combination of entrepreneurship, health sciences, and education).
Quite a useless degree indeed- but then again, how useful is a college degree anymore, regardless of subject? Let alone a bachelors.
Certainly a few decades ago, it meant something- now?
Seems more and more like a high school diploma.
Combine this with many college students torturing themselves in majors they absolutely hate- business being the most common, followed by psychology- and we have quite a fun cocktail for my generations future (mildly educated in subjects that can’t stand, an excellent use of time).
I for one, think college education is highly overrated.
From my 4 years at one of the largest colleges in the nation, I’ve had a grand total of 2 professors who I believe had anything legitimate to directly offer in terms of practical and applicable knowledge.
One was an American Government professor, the other a theater professor. In both cases, the knowledge they offered that was of any real value- had little to do with the subject of the class.
And why is it overrated (progressively of less and less value)?
I believe the answer can be best illustrated in the internet, actually.
Over the years, many companies- lacking a truly positive motive- have allocated large sums of money, by what I call “manipulating the variables”.
They basically got really rich, really fast- by focusing on the smaller aspects of their business not related to the inherent quality of their work.
Not unlike a gold rush. The problem now is, the gold is running out- consumers are wising up (waking up) to the BS they’ve been sold. Gimmicky sales copy and e-mail spamming are losing effectiveness by the minute.
Of course, the internet is only the forefront of this happening. I believe the same thing is happening in the physical world- people are wising the f*** up. A college degree used to hold a stigma- it “meant” something, because we attributed value to it.
They are far easier to attain now- and people are simply caring less and less. The value we’ve attributed to that piece of paper is dwindling- just like the digital sales copy of scam artists and industry elite.
The most important thing that now matters online- and progressively more in the physical world- is trust, and the inherent value of your work. ALL of the BS attached to those things, is fading- fast.
And as a natural result, those without real value to offer the world- are being, or will be, weeded out, one by one- day by day (from the business world).
They can fight and piss and moan all they want, but without finding what they really have to offer- they stand no chance. “Manipulating the variables” only slows a painful death in the world of business- online or in person.
It’s been seen in other industries, I’ve seen it in the “seduction community”, and I believe we will continue to see this phenomena accelerate- thank god.
…
Now, if I say all of the above truthfully, why the hell am I still in college?
Good question.
The answer was at one point two fold- now, it is only one.
Before I get into those points, I want to make it abundantly clear that former best friend Curtis Noll also- perhaps unknown to most- shared similar thoughts on college/school. They may have been slightly less developed, but fundamentally the same.
In fact I can vividly remember a conversation we had while he lived in Orlando at his sister’s apartment. It was sinking in for him- alongside the possibility of his cancer ending his life.
I can hardly imagine how difficult that must have been- to begin to realize that the time you are spending doing school work is a road to nowhere, and there is a very real chance your death is approaching at 22 years old (Curtis died August 1st 2008).
Think about that for a second- you know there is a very real chance your life is going to end, very soon- and even if you live, some of the time you are spending (what precious little he had left) is going to waste.
Once it hit me square in the face that college- at least for me- was absolutely useless, I considered my options.
What I decided on in the short term was that my time was well spent in college for reasons other than academics. College- and the city of Orlando- are an excellent place to gain experience.
I decided anything and everything could be a learning experience- except the content of formal classes (save the mentioned two). Women, social life, business relationships, networking… hell, learning how to have a good time and absorb the atmosphere.
My personal favorite though? (Weird as it is)
Actually being in class, and doing my best to learn- not from the material or professor directly, but by observing everything that went on.
The way people think, how conventional wisdom permeates areas outside of my immediate interests (pretty easy to spot once you know how to look for it), what motivates people to do what they do- excel in class, interact with teachers, take naps in a non-mandatory class, chase validation outside of themselves- you name it, and it can probably be learned in a college classroom setting.
Can it be learned elsewhere? Of course- but a mainstream large university like UCF is a lot of bang for your buck.
…
I was fine with this- as long as other areas of my life were not compromised.
And this is where things get sticky.
The demands of school have changed little over the years- but demands outside of school have increased exponentially.
In the fall of 2008 and spring of 2009, this was not known to me. The added workload was buffered by the temporary loss of a scholarship (and as a result, less classes taken).
Primarily, the convention, and this very blog.
So much so (more in a moment) that I have decided not to finish college (anytime soon).
Not begin thinking about the idea- but my final decision barring any drastic changes. And they would have to be pretty dramatic- since I’ve learned at this point to expect all sorts of fun and challenging things to occur.
In fact, I look forward any obstacles that come my way- life would be far less exciting without them =).
So then…what is my reason for not stopping school immediately?
Shamelessly- money.
My parents did so bad last year on their tax return (and I’m claimed as a dependent) that when I applied for FAFSA, the government decided I was eligible for the maximum amount of grant and subsidized loan money- instantly.
I didn’t even have to complete the application- I was ushered right to the end.
Am I proud of this? Ashamed?
No. More appreciative than anything. Rather than waste my parents money as many college students now do (it still baffles me to see 18 year olds in ~$60,000 dollar sports cars, daily)- I can put the government’s money- or, the millions of dollars in taxes my father has paid throughout his life time- to good use.
Rather than learn how to be a worker-bee, I can develop area’s of my life that are of great importance to me- and maybe, just maybe, make a dent in the things I see wrong in the world- and have a truly positive impact on my generation.
…
For about the past two weeks, and through the end of the spring- the effort will put forth in school has, and will continue to be, dramatically reduced- and never an amount that interferes with any other aspect of my life that is of greater importance.
After that, I will take a leave of absence from UCF- leaving the door open to return someday…if I decide to.
Ironically, this same phenomena occurred my senior year of high school. I was in the IB program at Fort Myers High School- and I discovered that as long as I graduated from high school, while still in that program, my academics would have absolutely zero effect on the next chapter of my life.
Zip, zero, zilch, none (and indeed, they did not).
Graduating from the IB program (even with miserable grades), granted you an automatic scholarship from the state of Florida.
Of course, once my teachers figured out my motives, they were outraged, and made every attempt to kick me out of the program (as a poor student hurt the statistics for the program).
In fact I had to sit down in front of 2 of our principals, my senior English lit teacher, and the guidance counselor- and listen to an angry interogation where they tried to pry my “true” motive out of me.
How did I respond? Simple logic and an emotionless stare of course.
Why would I have come this far to quit now?
Of course, the same can be said now about college- and in fact, has, by people I respect and trust.
Why come this far, and then suddenly quit?
The answer is simple- like high school, college no longer has a bearing on the rest of my life. That chapter is already being written- this one has ended.
And by “their” own logic, being so close to graduating leaves me the opportunity to come back at almost any time and quickly finish school.
Why spend another minute fiddling away doing something totally meaningless to me?
…
To end this stampede on college and transition on to the next topic, I will talk about debt.
Many students, graduate in large amounts of debt. They have a degree- and it cost them X amount of dollars, per month, plus interest, for the next 10-30 years of their life.
It’s as if they intentionally bound themselves to a system they didn’t want or need, and got almost nothing in return.
Strange as it is, sounds like a deal with the devil to me…
A great example would be one of my previous room mates- she graduated in a very, very large amount of debt (and even this sum is pennies in comparison to some out of state students I’ve spoken with).
She got a business degree, and fresh out of college, was making approximately- minimum wage.
I shit you not- minimum wage.
Now, a few years of college, and a very large amount of debt, seems like an awful lot to pay- for a job you don’t like, that pays the minimum allowed by the government.
Strange indeed since most high school students have access to the same jobs.
By the same token, I will also *graduate* (leave) college in a large amount of debt- no degree, but leave all the same.
The question now is, who will leave in a better position? Conventional wisdom says the person with a piece of paper- but if you ask me, my debt is of significantly greater value, to myself, and everyone involved.
I’ll be leaving college, not beginning, but continuing and building upon something I truly love. Something that hardly tires me even in the extreme, that never seems like work- even when it blatantly is.
Perhaps most importantly, something that excites me, every moment, of every day. In school, grocery shopping, traveling, taking a shower, and brushing my teeth =).
If you ask me, doing what everyone else does in college, is the equivalent of drawing the short straw. While your path may not follow mine even remotely, I suggest you re-examine your position if it’s in the majority, since the “sure” path in college, is surely a path to no where at this point.
On “Work”
If you thoroughly enjoy it and find excitement in it- it’s not work. I figured this out a few weeks ago doing some homework for one of my thrilling classes.
Well, I was “trying” to, and failing miserably.
Every word was torture.
At first I though I was being lazy, or a whiny little b**ch about it. And then it hit me, like a baseball bat- this is why people kill themselves. 40 years of this mind numbing crap, and you blow your brains out.
I then wondered how I am able to work for countless hours on the convention- or, this very blog- and not only survive, but thrive through the ups and downs of it over the years.
I realized that on a very deep level, these things align with my purpose in life right now. My true passions so to speak.
And even when the going get’s tough- or I have to do work related to it that is something I genuinely DON’T want to do- it’s not really “work”- I simply accept my task at hand.
Sure, I don’t want to do it- but it’s for a greater cause. And, no one will pick up my slack- the responsibility always lies with me. If I don’t get it done, and done right, it will undermine what I really want to happen.
With school work- I have little to no acceptance of anything that takes up a considerable amount of time. A test in the campus computer lab?
I have to rationalize taking it by telling myself the ride there is worth the sunlight and fresh air.
Studying?
Not a chance.
And somehow, I still do well…
…
Essentially dropping out of college is a pretty big step in life- one that I thought long and hard about.
When I step back and attempt to get some “altitude” on the matter though, things seem clear now.
I look at college, and see only the ability to waste more time.
I look at life outside of college- the convention mostly- and I see massive opportunity.
I see the opportunity for this convention to hit national TV and go viral on a scale rarely seen.
I see the opportunity to challenge myself on the deepest level.
And perhaps most important of all, I see the opportunity- naive as it sounds- to change the course of my generation.
Imagine if every college and senior high school student were aware of The 21 Convention. The free exchange of ideas…on everything.
Of even greater importance, consider my generations physical health.
In the book, Freakonomics- the authors write about the prediction of a coming “blood bath” (crime wave)- and how the exact opposite happened.
By the same token, I can see a “coming blood bath” for those around my age, in regards to overall physical health.
Mainstream nutritional thinking is severely flawed. Diabetes, obesity, etc- still rising- for YOUNG people.
What’s worse, never before have we been this physically active in ways that deteriorate our health- we are now on the wrong side of two separate, but not unrelated coins.
I actually met a childhood friend a few months back- who I hadn’t seen in many years. What’s interesting about him is his time-line of body composition.
- Age 5- Wins a child hood version of a body building competition. Prize money, $100,000 dollars- I shit you not. First thing he “buys”, an in ground pool for their house.
- Age 10- Chubby. Not obese, but chubby.
- Age 14 (last I saw him before recently)- Beings to gain some serious weight.
- Age 19- Has been working with his Dad in their lawn care business- lots of physical activity. At 5’8, now weighs over 350 pounds.
He has trouble moving around due to both of his knees not being able to support his weight. He is already signed up to have one of his knees operated on (I believe it has already happened since I last saw him).
Remember, he is 19 years old.
Do you think this is rare? I wish it were.
What’s worse, all of this could not only be reversed by proper exercise and nutrition, but is directly caused by a lack of it (or, too much activity in the case of his knees, on top of the enormous weight created by conventional wisdom surrounding nutrition).
I believe it’s not even possible- literally- to become that obese, eating a proper diet. You could eat till you threw up every day, and you would never become that obese- it’s simply not possible without a steady (and high) stream of insulin.
Think about where he- and others like him my age- will be in 10, 15 years. If, even alive- since his body obviously responds very poorly to eating improperly and excessive wear and tear (and what’s more, a lack of physical activity that will help protect against damages from that)- I can’t imagine he will be a healthy, functioning, individual.
And where is he supposed to turn?
Most every piece of advice he will ever hear on the subject of his health is useless at best, and downright harmful at worst.
What’s worse, it comes from well intentioned- but uninformed- individuals. People that hold positions of authority in his life as well- including his doctor(s), parents, most of his friends, etc.
…
Considering all of the above, I believe it is imperative, by my own right, to see The 21 Convention continue to grow and succeed. The internet is an incredible resource for changes to occur, and I see little else that has the ability to positively impact my peers on a massive scale.
Also- this is a little more “out there”- it appears to me that my life is now “lined up” for all of this to happen. To leave college, focus on the convention, and hopefully, travel the world in the process.
I say “lined up” because I can see the path revealing itself, ever the more rapidly over the past few months.
It’s certainly not the clearest, but there are a few things that have influenced me.
One is my perception of the encouragement I have received from people I trust. Few have supported my decision to leave college directly, but indirectly (through my interpretation and own decision) it seems to be the best course of action.
Second is the support, or lack there of- from friends and family.
It is ALWAYS surprising to see who supports my endeavors- directly or indirectly- and those who oppose them.
Directly would be a friend like Peter Murphy- who was a major part of the 2009 event. Or my former best friend Curtis- who always supported what I did (well, 99% of the time, he was wise beyond his age and in rare cases kept me from doing things I would regret).
Indirectly would be a friend who repeatedly comments he could NEVER see me working a 9-5.
Those who oppose what I do, are not as common, but definitely show up on my radar. Why?
Difficult to say, but I suppose it’s an interesting learning experience at the very least, to see close friends be bitter or jealous- not on the surface level of course, but enough to sense it time and time again.
Somehow, that final aspect is also the most motivating. It’s a signal of sorts that I’ve come to recognize over the years- a signal that I’m heading in the right direction.
That’s one amazing post, and I can say that I strongly relate to it.
In June I graduated Gymnasium, which in Swedish terms would equal almost high school (I’m 19). I think I’m in kind of the same phase as I have no interest in studying something longer at a university, for any other reason than the social aspect.
I’m happy to see that you’ve started to find a route for yourself, even though it might, and most probably, will only be a guideline in at the point in life where you are right now. I’m also looking for a route, and think I have found at least a few of them which I would like to try out.
First of all a big conclusion I’ve come to is this:
Money often screws a lot of things up.
I have soooo many hobbies and things I’m passionate about, or passionate about learning, but I’ve come to realize that generating cash through them could easily fuck it up. You can see this in many niches where people really have a damn good product, but end up over marketing it ’til the point where people are just staring at but doesn’t want to try it. Another one would be over pricing because you want to earn the big bucks.
My ideal “job” would be earning enough cash to be able to pay the bills, all the while having time over for working on pumping out free value. As long as I have cash enough to meet my needs all I really need is time.
At the moment I’m just taking some courses, living at home (no loans), about things I really enjoy AND are aligning with many of my free projects. The courses are mainly Web design/Web development which is a great load of fun, and really helps me in real life too.
I would love to keep maintaining your websites, I feel like this is one way of me saying thank you for providing such great value to the community. It’s also my way of contributing (even though on a much smaller scale) to the community by helping you out, considering my current life situation and its possibilities.
I’d love to do some joint ventures in the future if possible!
Ciao dude,
Jonas
university becoming more irrelevant in the digital age, M.I.T has put up their entire curriculum online for FREE! ….http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm
this means the gatekeepers of knowledge are losing control, it means the sub par colleges will be exposed as students and parents can now compare quality. it means you can acquire all the knowledge an MIT student gets without paying the massive tuition (you have to still buy the textbooks–get em used)
but i thought the internet would kill off real estate agents, and that hasnt happened yet, how long will bricks and mortar universities hang on for? Uni is a great place to get laid, and find a future wife- that may be the reason why college campus endures.
–grade 9 high school dropout.
I think colleges have their purpose. Mainly if you are seeking a specific skill set. Going to college to ‘just make money’ isn’t a great idea and there are definitely better ways to go about it; however, if you want to do something specific (lawyer, psychologist, scientist, etc) it is a great way to learn those skills. It’s a great way to make sure that the person applying for a position has the skills necessary for the position.
I spoke with a biologist working for the state a few years ago. She told me that 15-20 years ago only a BS degree was required to do research for the state but now they don’t even consider them. 20 years from now will they only consider Ph.D. graduates? What about 20 years from then? Teaching is going the same route it seems, though definitely not as quick. Private schools require a Masters degree and I think public schools are going to same route, a few states already have. It’s going to be interesting to see what degree level will be the standard 50 years from now.
Also, we’re quite different with our college views. I’ve enjoyed most of my classes so far. All of my major-area classes have been great and I can’t wait to apply the research in the field. Though most of my general ed. don’t have a practical purpose I have definitely enjoyed the subject matter and love to expand my knowledge. I had a difficult time choosing a major because I’m interested in so many fields.
I’m all for you pursuing your goals and you can show people that college isn’t necessary for everyone. There are other ways to pursue your passions and it looks like you’re already pursuing yours.
Best of luck!
@Dan
Agreed, and well spoken. Thanks for commenting
-Anthony
I would just like to back up the graduate and work for pennies idea further…It’s more of a plug actually. In Michael Moores new movie Capitalism: A Lov… there is an incredibly eye opening section on airplane pilots and their wages. One gentleman was flying planes while on food stamps. We are talking a man that DID get hired in his field upon graduation. Promising futures.
I have to disagree with your comments about college. False for the most part – you can very much get your money’s worth. Despite the fact that college for me costs $50k of my parents’ money per year, I’ve made roughly 2.5 years’ worth of tuition in cash and stock since starting school 2 years ago. In addition to that, I’ve learned an incredible amount, been taught personally by the most brilliant people in my field, and made some extremely valuable connections. Not to say that college is the right path for everyone, I agree with you there, but college is not at all useless.
@Jonas
Thanks for the kind words man, always a pleasure to hear what you have to say! =). On the money aspect, 100% agree.
This is why I have been very, very cautious about “monetizing” the convention in any way- since releasing the footage in the spring of this year. I still refuse to use external banner ads, or promote products I don’t personally support. I also dont run an e-mail list, as I prefer to lead by example and not use one =).
Kind of the “rogue” route, but it has worked very well so far.
On a related note, sometimes making money from something you love is a double edged sword. In the case of the convention, I believe it is something that has to happen, otherwise I couldn’t devote as much time as I do to it (it’s almost literally a full time job).
Also, the more “profit” (and not just money in general) it brings in, the more I can re-invest in the event and site. In the process, I always strive for the win/win scenario though. IE- selling more tickets, rather than raising the price. And allowing those who buy early sick discounts, while those who buy last minute make up the difference.
A necessary course of action so to speak.
Anyway, always appreciate the help man. Well keep in touch, and Ill see you in Sweden next June! And ya, anything you need help /w launching off, just let me know- always willing to lend a hand.
-Anthony
@Pat
Not particularly a fan of Moore but that movie looks interesting- and now my curiosity is peaked =). Is it out nationwide yet?
@Leonidas
My thoughts often come out black and white, it’s just the way my brain works =). I agree, college is not completely useless, and I did not mean for the post to come out that way. See Dan’s comments
http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/10/04/brutally-honest-on-college-life-work-and-beyond/#1677
for a good take on where my thoughts lay on college being useful.
For clarification though, are you saying you made $125,000 in your first 2 years of college? If so, kudos man, that’s damn impressive! But, have you ever heard the saying “the exception proves the rule”?
I think you may be the exception bringing in that much cash and learning a substantial amount of practical knowledge in college at this point in time.
-Anthony
Hey Anthony,
I’ve been following your blog for some while now, and more than anything else I read on the net, which is a good amount, I really agree with what you say. Because of your posts on nutrition and exercise, I went through a huge research phase, and really realized how shockingly off conventional wisdom usual is. Anyways, I figure its about time i started commenting on some of your post, and this one definitely deserves it.
In May I started graduate studies at McGill University in Montreal. I also did my undergrad there in Civil Engineering. When I was first reading your post I started by disagreeing and I now realized why. My 4 years as an undergrad where awesome. I had a lot of fun, learnt a lot (not necessarily in class) and i didn’t once think about dropping out. I had friends, who were in programs that don’t necessarily have a well defined career path tacked to it (history for example, as opposed to engineering), that loved having the opportunity to learn about something they enjoy from an professionals in an institution. We have our whole lives to earn checks, University is in some ways our last chance at youth.
So whats the difference between your situation and mine? I guess it comes down to money. School for me cost around 1600$/semester, which I could afford to pay with part-time jobs, while I lived with my parents. Financially, it wasn’t the biggest investment, so being that, it was easier to appreciate it as a time to learn, grow, have fun, and less as a venue towards a successful career.
I will graduate with a 2 degrees from McGill, but I don’t feel such an urge to stay with engineering when I finish – i might open a restaurant with my brother, or learn a trade (im especially weary of the the 9-5 lifestyle after reading 4-hour-workweek). If I was 50 000$ in the deep, that would be a different story – couldnt imagine investing so much and not doing something in it. Anyways, I know it’s irritating for Americans to hear rants from people from other countries about how great their socialized systems are, so I’ll leave it at that.
And I just want to comment on what the guy said about making up his debt in a short period after graduation. Thats definitely a scenario that happens quite a lot, but its not always what makes people happy or fulfilled, which you could use as an argument about the problems of higher education.
This is stolen from 4-hour-workweek, but when I turn 50, I don’t want to be a fat guy driving a bmw, making a ton a money, working all hours of the day, but basically unfulfilled. Thats where a lot of professional degrees will drive you towards (business, engineering and medicine especially). My brother did an undergrad in mining engineering, got a job right away in a arctic nickel mine (his cycle was 21 days straight work there in the arctic desert, 12 hour days, and have 14 days off to come back home). He was making over 6 figures in only 2 years. The result? He’s had to quit, is now on anti-anxiety pills, and never wants to think about engineering again. i have another friend with a similar total break-down story. I have a bunch of friends who have steady jobs with not such crazy lifestyles, but they’ve noticeably “matured” and have lost a lot of pep and excitement. I fear that a lot more than being broke.
The bottom line is, the important thing to do in life is not be afraid to question conventional habits of our society. If you think what you’re investing in isn’t worth the outcome, as in Anthony’s situation, don’t be afraid to challenge it, even if society will look at you funny. Thats true with everything, not just school.
Good luck with everything Dream
simz
What business are you in Leonidas? I can’t imagine any college student making 125k in two years in your field of study unless you’re taking classes like Magical Mushrooms ands Drug Dealing 101.
Well, to be fair, probably about $90k of that is stock in my company, so it’s not exactly money in the bank just yet. Gotta love those dorm room startups. Salary from that startup has added up to about $15k, and another $20k from my internship this summer. All opportunities I gained through my college – I started my company with one of my close friends from school, and I got my last internship mostly because one of my professors worked for the company and put in a good word for me.
And Dream, as for diplomas not meaning too much, here’s some interesting statistics for you: http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77 . While it is quite true that with a college diploma you may very well end up flipping burgers regardless, that may also be the exception; you have a better chance of doing well financially later on with a college degree. Of course your argument about college costs being ridiculous and leaving school with a lot of debt is valid, but the average difference of ~$15k per year in salary according to the above is enough to overcome the average debt of a college graduate ($22,700 according to http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/10/college-graduate-school-loans-personal-finance-retirement-grad-school-debt.html ) within a couple years. On average, getting a degree seems worth it from that, no?
So few people add REAL value to the world, so thank you Anthony
Most of what people aspire to today is being ‘variable manipulators’, such as traders realtors and salespeople, its a social problem, I attribute it to lazyness and lack of personal reflection. TFerriss only invests in businesses whose value he can affect.
Although I feel most of what you said was obvious, you already have the solution, gaining experience in the field you care about, and applying your knowledge. And I dont mean on homework assignments!
20th century was the yang period of development, the extracting and external, the 21st will be the inquisitive and internal. This personal development trend is THE answer to the complaints about the US being a celebrity-focused society, the question is how to make it popular with the masses (and super profitable).
Email me, I have a few ideas but I really believe that this can, and will, dramatically alter our whole current culture of celebrity-centricism in a very good way.
I think statistics about how ‘valuable’ a degree is and how much more degree holders earn are interesting but irrelevant and potentially misleading for people that are seriously mulling over whether or not to leave college.
The reason is that, as always, correlation does not imply causation. Sure, it might be the physical piece of paper that is earning degree holders an extra million over their lifetime. But college students probably also tend to be a segment of society better off financially, more motivated, better connected in society, etc.
Whether to attend college is a personal decision that each individual should make. After weighing all the options, I decided there were many more opportunities for me, for much cheaper, outside of the classroom than inside. This was my decision and I expect others to make a different one.
The bigger issue is that most never consciously make the choice. They’ve just been raised to assume college is best and since they can afford it they should go.
Simply presented statistics further encourage individuals to not consider the many issues in the choice and just glaze over the decision, assuming what’s best for their statistical wallet is best for their life overall.
So to me, the ultimate message in all of this is *consciously make your own decisions*.
@Nicky
“I think statistics about how ‘valuable’ a degree is and how much more degree holders earn are interesting but irrelevant and potentially misleading for people that are seriously mulling over whether or not to leave college.”
My thoughts exactly- the landscape is rapidly changing. Stats from the past bear little relevance in the near and far future (in most cases, and on this subject).
Edit- just read the rest of your comment. Excellent, and thanks for taking the time to write it.
Anthony,
First off, I have to say that I truly enjoy your blog. I have only been reading it for the past 2 days but everything you have to say is very interesting. On the subject of the college degree though, I must disagree with you. Stay in school and get the degree! I am a high school special education teacher with a masters degree in high school administration and I love my job! My wife is also a teacher. We love being around kids, educating our students, and only work 180 days a year. We make enough money to make ends meet, have full benefits, and have a very low stress level. Both of us could have NEVER obtained these positions without a college degree. After watching your speech at your 21 convention, you look as though you could be a great teacher. Your blog already does that…now just do it in front of a class of 30 kids that would be more that eager to hear what you have to say. Just my thoughts. I love my job, my life, and my time off to take care of my family. None of that could have ever been a possibility without a college education.
I think college and to working at an unfullfilling job are both so overrated.
@Simon
Thanks for the kind words man. Always good to see a long time reader come out of the shadows to! =)
“im especially weary of the the 9-5 lifestyle after reading 4-hour-workweek”
Same here.
“Anyways, I know it’s irritating for Americans to hear rants from people from other countries about how great their socialized systems are,”
Born and raised in the US, not irritating at all. While I am not supportive of our government heading in that direction (at all), I find it very interesting and am always open to learn more about it.
Anyway, awesome comment man. I think it added a lot, so thanks for taking the time to hop in the discussion.
-Anthony
@John
Thanks for commenting, will shoot you an e-mail sometime soon to the e-mail you entered to comment. Look forward to hearing fresh ideas!
@Blain
Glad you’re enjoying the blog. I’ve seen your site before as well on BBS.
As for your comment, I’m glad that college worked out well for you, and your family. However, I feel times are and have already changed. Not only that, but they will continue to rapidly change in the coming years, and I really don’t feel that the options you had in college, are the same ones my generation has.
I also feel my role in life is different than most. Naive perhaps, but I don’t see my self ever working for someone, ever again. I want to make a difference in the world, however small, and the only way I see that happening is to take the best course of action possible, at every given moment.
Right now, that for me is focusing intensely on The 21 Convention and related projects- and leading by example by following my passions.
thanks for commenting, hopefully you’ll see me on national TV someday =)
-Anthony
WOW Dream you have wrote something that hit me in the fucking center of my soul. I have seriously considered leaving college for a long time, I feel like it is nothing more than a business that sells a shitty version of a product I can get on the internet for free. Yet I have to say coming to college did indirectly open my eyes to how fucked up and confused the majority of the world is and at the same time ignited my passion to change this. You are already doing this and I just have to say THANK YOU. I would also like to help you in anyway that I can, anything no matter how small let me know.
P.S. I was just wondering if you have watched zeitgeist and what your thoughts are on it, in particular the part about the Venus project, thanks
@Shaman
Thanks for the kind words and help offer. As for how… spread the word! =). I think stumble upon is a great way to do this if you already use it.
Also, we have a facebook event for The 21 Convention 2010. I will begin offering discounts to those who invite their friends to it on Facebook. Shoot me an e-mail at Dream at the21convention.com if you are interested.
As for Zeitgeist, I have seen most of one version (as I understand it, there are multiple versions).
It’s hard for me to put into words my definite opinion of it, but at the very least it is highly interesting- especially the discussion of the gold standard, federal reserve, and “perpetual debt”- although I also believe it is a bit “over paranoid” at times. But I also believe we need viewpoints like that in society, so, to each his own.
I only vaguely remember the Venus project part (at the end if I remember correctly?). Will have to check it out again sometime.
thanks for commenting
-Anthony
I think I remember talking to you on the phone about the this very subject. I agree with you completely on your take on college and high school.
I myself left high school a year early, because I thought it was just a waste when there was a world of opportunity out there. When I went to UCF one day after being accepted, I met with two professors in Computers and Marketing at the time, who said what the hell would I do there, don’t waste my time.
By all means, college has some benefits but the paper definitely isn’t one of them.
good friend of mine said i should check out your site…
i think most people do it so that they don’t have a lingering sense of regret if they don’t wind up driving a matt black 2010 Lamborghini.
i’m at college.
and i also have similar reasons. justifications. excuses.
come this far bleh.
i need to bleh.
all yuck.
but it has changed the way i think. that’s the most valuable thing.
and it’s like an all-you-can-eat buffet of hot adventures creatures of love
haha
really like your site. and story. super inspiring. and seems like we’re similar.
keep well and in touch mate. and hit me up if you ever roll down to south africa
alex – unleash reality
@Chris
“By all means, college has some benefits but the paper definitely isn’t one of them.”
Well said.
@Alex
Thanks for checking in man. Will definitely shoot you an e-mail if I decide to head there next year! (or, whenever)
-Anthony
Great post Anthony. I’m just applying for college now as a hs senior and I really don’t see the point sometimes. The only things I want to learn are exercise/nutrition science, foreign languages, maybe some psychology, and painting. Not exactly what you’d expect from a regular college degree.
Anyway, the funny thing is that while I’m in high school I can visit the local library and check out books like BBS and Brzycki’s strength training manuals or a French guide book or a book on body language and psychology or whatever. And for painting, the local museum hosts classes for like $30 a month.
The more I read and try to teach myself, try to question conventional wisdom, the more I find that what I learn in school is taught to me for the sole purpose of regurgitation onto a Scantron, and what I learn on my own actually applies to real life.
So what to do about this? My conclusion: learn what you want to learn on your own time, using your own resources (that means thinking outside the box), outside of a “formal education.” Attend a decent school (I’m thinking Ohio State) and do enough to get by while building relationships that will actually help you learn what you want to learn, do what you want to do.
@Ben
It amazes to me to see how many readers are coming out of the wood work on this topic, and bringing valuable insight to the table.
Like others, very well said. The fact that you understand what you just wrote about, in high school, is astounding.
Rock on man, you are WAY ahead of your age group
-Anthony
My high school education was WAY more intense than my college education currently is.
I took a few science courses with a bunch of people who want to become doctors and dentists. I shudder to think that they may one day practice on people.
I’m a math major. I don’t expect to actually do anything with the degree, but it’s enough that people get impressed when they hear it. I see all these people who are just mediocre and I know that getting a degree does not make me or them special.
I told my mom and sister that I think college is a dieing industry and their reaction was pretty typical.
I’ve been saying for a year that I want to drop out (or take a “leave of absence”). My only reason for not doing it has been that I haven’t had the guts. I’m scheduled to graduate in the spring, after only three years, but I think that if I actually get the degree, it’s going to be a Pyrrhic victory. I’m going to make me feel hypocritical and I’m not going to enjoy telling people I have a math degree.
I know I’m capable of doing great things; I’ve seen it throughout my entire life. But that has always been for things I’ve felt passionate about. I see absolutely no reason for me to do something that has already been planned out so “well” that there’s no longer any point for me to be there. If it’s so effin fabulous, somebody else can do it.
College is all about the “experience”. Now how you define and embody that experience is entirely up to you. Its not mandatory and while most people say they go to college to get a higher level of educations what they are doing is SOCIALIZING! That’s why people hang around the school’s libraries or coffee areas in hopes of running into more people to chill with and what not.
Really though, I think it takes balls to take an unconventional route. You know.. to just have those high aspirations and say screw the normal way. I want to offer my support and encouragement Dream and everybody else. You don’t have to go to college or even finish it–I often regret not starting a business or some sort of “project” like The 21 Convention a couple of years back. I just graduated last December and have been living at home with parents since then jobless because I really had my eyes opened.. reading The 4 Hour Work Week and then seeing people like Anthony is positively envious. I was supposed to be studying for my exams right now to be an actuary but I realized I don’t want to spend 300 hours studying for each of those exams throughout my life when I could be studying about fitness or personal development which is what really moves me.
Cheers to all you guys. Remember to think for yourself. Know what you want. Be fearless which really means to push your comfort zone. Finally, take action.
-Dilan
I strongly relate and totally agree with this Anthony.
For a while even beginning in high school I asked, where is this leading? What am I doing here in this classroom when I have so much to offer the world? I started asking my peers this, and they looked at me funny. Some replied with “Oh, get a good job”. I tried convincing them that they were banging their heads- biology degrees didn’t really yield good jobs. Most of the kids in my old program wanted to be doctors, pharmacists, or some kind of professional, and grindly mindlessly, some even sacrificing their own sanity and integrity in the process. A girl that had the 2nd highest marks at my high school dropped out of university for severe anxiety. Others would cheat, lie, and even have sexual affairs with teaching assistants to get the grades or references.
For myself, I had to get out of school asap- I couldn’t be associated with that stuff, as well as the small mindedness of the people at my university. My ultimate goal was to learn as much as I could about the human body, perhaps furthering medical science for the good, as well as to become a great businessman, and enjoy experiences with people, family, and friends. In the first year of my undergrad, I said- how many tests will I have to write before I make use of any of this? When does this become real? Why would I want to grind myself and sacrifice the things that I truly love in my life?
It was an epiphany that made me apply to med school out of 1st year. At least when I’m learning the information, I’m learning to apply it to something useful. I agree with you in your views on the current medical model. As a medical student myself, I know that most doctors don’t know shit about keeping people healthy and living well- medicine is more trauma focussed and cure focussed, like if someone comes in vomitting or shitting blood. Our nutrition teaching sucks. However, I am learning human anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, microbiology, physical examination, etc, in a better and more hands on setting than by simply reading a book or by taking undergraduate courses with tests.
To top it off, the med school here is 3 years compressed, versus the standard 4. I’m going to graduate as likely the youngest doctor in Canada- 22 years old. At the end of the day, I don’t know if I want to practice medicine and work a job, but I will be happy that I acquired this knowledge. An MD certainly doesn’t hurt either. To the point of doctors not knowing shit- We have 200 docs and even more proffs that work with the med school, and a lot of them have cutting edge ideas and research. More doctors that teach here have a good knowledge of overall health, but not even that they have knowledge, its that they acknowledge the limitations of current knowledge, and not hold steady to conventional beliefs.
I’ve seen people even in my immediate family, with multiple degress, but little real street smarts and true rational thinking ability, with poor paying jobs. I think people need to evaluate the true purpose of going to school post high school. I also think that education does not necessarily have to be tied to a job either- I took courses out of pure interest, like Philosophy of Logic, Latin and Economics, and I found those to be some of the most rewarding courses I took. Would they lead to better pay? Probably not, but I enjoyed them.
All in all, I totally agree with this Anthony. Keep blogging, the world needs it. You and I are very similar in a lot of ways. I love the way you think and get shit done. I hope we can meet some day.
Mario