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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Leave me alone, allow me to mess up and learn on my own&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/</link>
	<description>The Blog of Anthony &#039;Dream&#039; Johnson</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:57:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/comment-page-1/#comment-4435</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=1212#comment-4435</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your big reply. I thought you deleted my maybe a bit too far-sought post. But gladly even replied. And no, I don&#039;t think you&#039;re going off-topic with your reply on mine.

&quot;I would argue otherwise though. The government still only has the power we grant it, period. The federal government does not own me, and it does not own my money.&quot;

Sorry, I have not well explained what I meant with &quot;control&quot;. With this I mean people are put right into an old system (schooling) and nobody likes it. It&#039;s slow, inefficient, and doesn&#039;t fit in our current non-stop economy. Look, we spend so much time reading on the internet and learn about 100 times more compared to siginign up for a &#039;course&#039; with a big &#039;title&#039; doing an a few exams and forgetting everything (not putting theory in practical thinking).

People don&#039;t know better, so by that I meant lack of awareness, I said they are controlled. They never took control themselves. As soon as they are put into companies, they are already learning more if we consider effeciency, although I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the ultimate way to go either.

&quot;“Individualism” is not to blame though, the same way guns don’t kill people- people kill people. People need to think for themselves, and develop their own sense of right and wrong. When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).&quot;

Seriously, I have been thinking about this alot. My only questions are how and why? My dads an experienced family- and relationship psychologist and helps those people who get over-stressed only, because of insurance (110%). This got me thinking, looking back at my own history, I needed someone to help me. I was so deluded from social contact because I was dealing with difficult emotions at that time. Schools all said I was the perfect person to fit in.

Last week we had ethics week at school (following entrepreneurship currently), not saying that people were wrong, but only 2 people out of 50 who had in my opinion well-considered ethics. That&#039;s not much, eh? All these guys wanted to run their own businesses (not saying that they are going to manage, although I hope the very best for them).

&quot;When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).&quot;

Is this so? For example. I was thinking, we give every person on the planet a basic right for a personal coach. These can help them with difficult descisions, or if I&#039;m right, by your stating, this is fundamentally wrong to even start with?

For example, the guy who I talked about, he coaches kids, maybe they get bullied, is help them then ethically right? Or would it be better to let them deal with this on their own, even though they may waste 6 years in front of their computers, finally becoming very frustrated and later on highly succesful to compensate?

And last, but not least, I love reading your blog. I and I also love ethics, and this kind of talk. Just a suggestion for blog food.

I have recently, after my first post, realized nothing is in control. I can only influence my own destiny and the future. I&#039;m not to decide what&#039;s best for someone else, but as you said, help those who seek help. It depends all on my personal goals, nothing else matters. But this realization alone, can it only be actualized by going through all the mistakes (community) I have gone through? I&#039;m not asking you, but just typing my thoughts. Now again it comes down to efficiency and relativity. If I know a better way I&#039;m free to make it happen if that leads me closer to my individual goals. And I think this is also now final conclusion, but I remain open for thoughts never-the-less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your big reply. I thought you deleted my maybe a bit too far-sought post. But gladly even replied. And no, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re going off-topic with your reply on mine.</p>
<p>&#8220;I would argue otherwise though. The government still only has the power we grant it, period. The federal government does not own me, and it does not own my money.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, I have not well explained what I meant with &#8220;control&#8221;. With this I mean people are put right into an old system (schooling) and nobody likes it. It&#8217;s slow, inefficient, and doesn&#8217;t fit in our current non-stop economy. Look, we spend so much time reading on the internet and learn about 100 times more compared to siginign up for a &#8216;course&#8217; with a big &#8216;title&#8217; doing an a few exams and forgetting everything (not putting theory in practical thinking).</p>
<p>People don&#8217;t know better, so by that I meant lack of awareness, I said they are controlled. They never took control themselves. As soon as they are put into companies, they are already learning more if we consider effeciency, although I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the ultimate way to go either.</p>
<p>&#8220;“Individualism” is not to blame though, the same way guns don’t kill people- people kill people. People need to think for themselves, and develop their own sense of right and wrong. When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).&#8221;</p>
<p>Seriously, I have been thinking about this alot. My only questions are how and why? My dads an experienced family- and relationship psychologist and helps those people who get over-stressed only, because of insurance (110%). This got me thinking, looking back at my own history, I needed someone to help me. I was so deluded from social contact because I was dealing with difficult emotions at that time. Schools all said I was the perfect person to fit in.</p>
<p>Last week we had ethics week at school (following entrepreneurship currently), not saying that people were wrong, but only 2 people out of 50 who had in my opinion well-considered ethics. That&#8217;s not much, eh? All these guys wanted to run their own businesses (not saying that they are going to manage, although I hope the very best for them).</p>
<p>&#8220;When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).&#8221;</p>
<p>Is this so? For example. I was thinking, we give every person on the planet a basic right for a personal coach. These can help them with difficult descisions, or if I&#8217;m right, by your stating, this is fundamentally wrong to even start with?</p>
<p>For example, the guy who I talked about, he coaches kids, maybe they get bullied, is help them then ethically right? Or would it be better to let them deal with this on their own, even though they may waste 6 years in front of their computers, finally becoming very frustrated and later on highly succesful to compensate?</p>
<p>And last, but not least, I love reading your blog. I and I also love ethics, and this kind of talk. Just a suggestion for blog food.</p>
<p>I have recently, after my first post, realized nothing is in control. I can only influence my own destiny and the future. I&#8217;m not to decide what&#8217;s best for someone else, but as you said, help those who seek help. It depends all on my personal goals, nothing else matters. But this realization alone, can it only be actualized by going through all the mistakes (community) I have gone through? I&#8217;m not asking you, but just typing my thoughts. Now again it comes down to efficiency and relativity. If I know a better way I&#8217;m free to make it happen if that leads me closer to my individual goals. And I think this is also now final conclusion, but I remain open for thoughts never-the-less.</p>
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		<title>By: Dream</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/comment-page-1/#comment-3871</link>
		<dc:creator>Dream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=1212#comment-3871</guid>
		<description>@Mike

Thanks, and glad to hear about the eggs. I see people eating &quot;egg whites&quot; way to often...yikes!

I promise the eating post will be next. I refuse to put it off any longer, and will get er done &quot;no matter the cost&quot; =)


@Bram

&quot;- How can we teach the masses how to deal with trial and error and measure effectiveness?&quot;

The only way I know how, is to lead by example. I watched my father act like a child today, in front of my 12 year old brother, who looks up to him as any son would.

I thought, how is a child supposed to grow and become a man, when the very person he looks up to, behaves like a child?

Weather the subject is manhood, or critical thought, the same concept applies- leading by example, and taking right action (helping those who want to be helped, for example).

I see readers on this blog who are interested in what I have to say, so I am motivated to write. In turn, I am highly interested in feedback (and even criticism) on my thoughts and ideas, at the very least, to find the blind spots and errors.

It&#039;s mutually beneficial.

Make sense? I feel like I went a bit off topic lol.

&quot;- Is this a problem we want to tackle? Read more below:

From an ethical point we could say people have their own responsibility, but more people are realizing this: we are in the end still animals and everything happens as it does, history repeats itself.&quot;

Not always. Like you, I too believe in change. I find evidence in my own life- in my dietary choices, in my exercise choices, in my relationships, and with The 21 Convention (I&#039;ve certainly fuxed up a few times, and corrected course all the better because of it).



&quot;Society is still not de-schooled (school is now the church of back then).&quot;

Excellent point

&quot;What becomes then the next church? ‘False coaching?’. The government still has control over us,&quot;

I saw a similar comment on my facebook recently when I left a status update about &quot;healthcare reform&quot;. The gist of it was that the federal government tells me what to do every day anyway, so it&#039;s about time it was something &quot;positive&quot; or &quot;good&quot; (I can&#039;t remember which word was used).

I would argue otherwise though. The government still only has the power we grant it, period. The federal government does not own me, and it does not own my money.

Things are certainly heading in the wrong direction, but that doesn&#039;t mean the direction can&#039;t change. I know a number of people, myself included, that don&#039;t deal with the fed very much at all, and exercise their rights.

I love blogging, and voicing my opinion. Short of blogging about making explosives, I can write about damn near anything on here. I also bought a handgun recently, new, with little trouble. My friend bought a better handgun privately, for cash, with no problem what so ever, and zero wait time (literally traded cash in hand for a new Glock).

That, is free. 

On the same note, we&#039;re the most well armed populace in the world. As long as it stays that way, I don&#039;t think the government will ever really &quot;control&quot; us. Be a pain in the ass? Probably, but that&#039;s not the same thing. &quot;Controlling&quot; us is when guns start going off, and the poles shift between walking and talking.



&quot;imagine what the world could become without this schooled control? It could become pretty dangerous when everyone on the planet is individually going after own goals.&quot;

Mob rule is certainly something to be wary of, but so are elitist thinking morons who think they know how to live everyone else&#039;s life. We&#039;ve had a pretty good balance for a while now... room for improvement certainly, although it looks like the opposite is happening.

Regarding individuals goals... this is another two sided coin. On one hand, I&#039;m a massive supporter of &quot;individualism&quot;. I believe people are inherently good, and leaving them alone as much as possible is the wisest idea possible on a grand scale. However, people can ruin a good thing - and in the case of the US, people are focused solely on fuking each other over, more often than not.

&quot;Individualism&quot; is not to blame though, the same way guns don&#039;t kill people- people kill people. People need to think for themselves, and develop their own sense of right and wrong. When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).

thanks for commenting, awesome discussion

-Anthony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike</p>
<p>Thanks, and glad to hear about the eggs. I see people eating &#8220;egg whites&#8221; way to often&#8230;yikes!</p>
<p>I promise the eating post will be next. I refuse to put it off any longer, and will get er done &#8220;no matter the cost&#8221; =)</p>
<p>@Bram</p>
<p>&#8220;- How can we teach the masses how to deal with trial and error and measure effectiveness?&#8221;</p>
<p>The only way I know how, is to lead by example. I watched my father act like a child today, in front of my 12 year old brother, who looks up to him as any son would.</p>
<p>I thought, how is a child supposed to grow and become a man, when the very person he looks up to, behaves like a child?</p>
<p>Weather the subject is manhood, or critical thought, the same concept applies- leading by example, and taking right action (helping those who want to be helped, for example).</p>
<p>I see readers on this blog who are interested in what I have to say, so I am motivated to write. In turn, I am highly interested in feedback (and even criticism) on my thoughts and ideas, at the very least, to find the blind spots and errors.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s mutually beneficial.</p>
<p>Make sense? I feel like I went a bit off topic lol.</p>
<p>&#8220;- Is this a problem we want to tackle? Read more below:</p>
<p>From an ethical point we could say people have their own responsibility, but more people are realizing this: we are in the end still animals and everything happens as it does, history repeats itself.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not always. Like you, I too believe in change. I find evidence in my own life- in my dietary choices, in my exercise choices, in my relationships, and with The 21 Convention (I&#8217;ve certainly fuxed up a few times, and corrected course all the better because of it).</p>
<p>&#8220;Society is still not de-schooled (school is now the church of back then).&#8221;</p>
<p>Excellent point</p>
<p>&#8220;What becomes then the next church? ‘False coaching?’. The government still has control over us,&#8221;</p>
<p>I saw a similar comment on my facebook recently when I left a status update about &#8220;healthcare reform&#8221;. The gist of it was that the federal government tells me what to do every day anyway, so it&#8217;s about time it was something &#8220;positive&#8221; or &#8220;good&#8221; (I can&#8217;t remember which word was used).</p>
<p>I would argue otherwise though. The government still only has the power we grant it, period. The federal government does not own me, and it does not own my money.</p>
<p>Things are certainly heading in the wrong direction, but that doesn&#8217;t mean the direction can&#8217;t change. I know a number of people, myself included, that don&#8217;t deal with the fed very much at all, and exercise their rights.</p>
<p>I love blogging, and voicing my opinion. Short of blogging about making explosives, I can write about damn near anything on here. I also bought a handgun recently, new, with little trouble. My friend bought a better handgun privately, for cash, with no problem what so ever, and zero wait time (literally traded cash in hand for a new Glock).</p>
<p>That, is free. </p>
<p>On the same note, we&#8217;re the most well armed populace in the world. As long as it stays that way, I don&#8217;t think the government will ever really &#8220;control&#8221; us. Be a pain in the ass? Probably, but that&#8217;s not the same thing. &#8220;Controlling&#8221; us is when guns start going off, and the poles shift between walking and talking.</p>
<p>&#8220;imagine what the world could become without this schooled control? It could become pretty dangerous when everyone on the planet is individually going after own goals.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mob rule is certainly something to be wary of, but so are elitist thinking morons who think they know how to live everyone else&#8217;s life. We&#8217;ve had a pretty good balance for a while now&#8230; room for improvement certainly, although it looks like the opposite is happening.</p>
<p>Regarding individuals goals&#8230; this is another two sided coin. On one hand, I&#8217;m a massive supporter of &#8220;individualism&#8221;. I believe people are inherently good, and leaving them alone as much as possible is the wisest idea possible on a grand scale. However, people can ruin a good thing &#8211; and in the case of the US, people are focused solely on fuking each other over, more often than not.</p>
<p>&#8220;Individualism&#8221; is not to blame though, the same way guns don&#8217;t kill people- people kill people. People need to think for themselves, and develop their own sense of right and wrong. When that is provided for them, it is meaningless, and it degrades society (on all levels).</p>
<p>thanks for commenting, awesome discussion</p>
<p>-Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Hammer</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/comment-page-1/#comment-3799</link>
		<dc:creator>Hammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=1212#comment-3799</guid>
		<description>This is something that Covino and Rich from Maxim Radio on Sirius would call &quot;the pussification of america.&quot; Other examples include kids not being allowed to sit on Santa&#039;s lap, no tag in the playground because kids don&#039;t like being chased, and of course my personal favorite, playing musical chairs in pre-school with the same number of chairs as kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something that Covino and Rich from Maxim Radio on Sirius would call &#8220;the pussification of america.&#8221; Other examples include kids not being allowed to sit on Santa&#8217;s lap, no tag in the playground because kids don&#8217;t like being chased, and of course my personal favorite, playing musical chairs in pre-school with the same number of chairs as kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/comment-page-1/#comment-3794</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=1212#comment-3794</guid>
		<description>I feel like replying because I wonder about your opinion:

I met a guy a few months back, deeply involved in a mix of psychology, sociologics, philosophy and personal development and coaching kids in their study choices.

He said, that people of the current generation are not learning how to deal with trial and error. I agree with this and I actually think instead they getting programmed to work in statistics based companies.

If this is actually answer to currents generation&#039;s problems, the question becomes:
- How can we teach the masses how to deal with trial and error and measure effectiveness?
- Is this a problem we want to tackle? Read more below:

From an ethical point we could say people have their own responsibility, but more people are realizing this: we are in the end still animals and everything happens as it does, history repeats itself. Society is still not de-schooled (school is now the church of back then). What becomes then the next church? &#039;False coaching?&#039;. The government still has control over us, imagine what the world could become without this schooled control? It could become pretty dangerous when everyone on the planet is individually going after own goals.

Still, I believe in change and I believe there are opportunities to run businesses, but there are many things to consider on a sociological level on the long term. School is a church we won&#039;t see disappear any time soon. If people don&#039;t trust the existing systems they will turn to close people and these people get total sociological control over them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like replying because I wonder about your opinion:</p>
<p>I met a guy a few months back, deeply involved in a mix of psychology, sociologics, philosophy and personal development and coaching kids in their study choices.</p>
<p>He said, that people of the current generation are not learning how to deal with trial and error. I agree with this and I actually think instead they getting programmed to work in statistics based companies.</p>
<p>If this is actually answer to currents generation&#8217;s problems, the question becomes:<br />
- How can we teach the masses how to deal with trial and error and measure effectiveness?<br />
- Is this a problem we want to tackle? Read more below:</p>
<p>From an ethical point we could say people have their own responsibility, but more people are realizing this: we are in the end still animals and everything happens as it does, history repeats itself. Society is still not de-schooled (school is now the church of back then). What becomes then the next church? &#8216;False coaching?&#8217;. The government still has control over us, imagine what the world could become without this schooled control? It could become pretty dangerous when everyone on the planet is individually going after own goals.</p>
<p>Still, I believe in change and I believe there are opportunities to run businesses, but there are many things to consider on a sociological level on the long term. School is a church we won&#8217;t see disappear any time soon. If people don&#8217;t trust the existing systems they will turn to close people and these people get total sociological control over them.</p>
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		<title>By: MIkeG</title>
		<link>http://www.thedreamlounge.net/2009/12/23/leave-me-alone-allow-me-to-mess-up-and-learn-on-my-own/comment-page-1/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>MIkeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedreamlounge.net/?p=1212#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>&quot;the fading wisdom of my parents&quot;- good line

Is this any issue of society progressing and them not adapting or more like an amnesia? Dogma is omni present in older people I find. A reason for doing something is often &quot;cuz we always done it like this&quot; which isnt a reason.

Great blog man
really looking forward to the what/why you eat blogs, I have since started eating more eggs, and whole eggs ( i used to eat just the whites)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the fading wisdom of my parents&#8221;- good line</p>
<p>Is this any issue of society progressing and them not adapting or more like an amnesia? Dogma is omni present in older people I find. A reason for doing something is often &#8220;cuz we always done it like this&#8221; which isnt a reason.</p>
<p>Great blog man<br />
really looking forward to the what/why you eat blogs, I have since started eating more eggs, and whole eggs ( i used to eat just the whites)</p>
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